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Knowledge Pool Scenarios » Post: Can we ‘phix it? Yes we can! - SILVER

Can we ‘phix it? Yes we can! - SILVER

June 12, 2014 04:43:58 AM

Dan Collins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Northeast

Can we ‘phix it? Yes we can! - SILVER

Originally posted by Desmond Scholtens:

It is my understanding that a turn cycle is defined as: from the beginning of a players step/phase until the end of the next same step/phase of that player.

It's true that this is what “Turn cycle” means. However, this is not a phrase that appears anywhere in my copy of the IPG. Here's what the IPG does have to say regarding the time limit:

IPG
If … or the ability was missed prior to the current phase in the previous player's turn, instruct the players to continue playing.

Note that it says “previous player's turn”, not “current player's previous turn” or any such wording.

June 17, 2014 03:17:47 PM

Raymond Fong
Judge (Level 3 (UK Magic Officials)), Scorekeeper

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Can we ‘phix it? Yes we can! - SILVER

Hi and welcome back to the Knowledge Pool. There have been some lively discussions on this week's scenario, so without further ado, let's delve in!

In the scenario given, Nadia should receive a Warning (Missed Trigger) for the additional card Alan should have drawn but receives no penalty for the additional card she should have drawn during her last turn.

There are two missed triggers to consider, both of which belongs to Nadia:
On Nadia's turn, where she should have drawn an extra card on her turn, the trigger is not generally considered detrimental, so if she misses this, Alan is not obliged to point this out. No penalties will be given for this.
On Alan's turn, the second trigger Nadia missed is when Alan should have drawn an extra card on his turn. This is detrimental to Nadia and so she is obligated to point this out even if Alan forgets. Nadia will receive a Missed Trigger warning for this.

From the IPG:

2.1 Missed Triggers

A triggered ability triggers, but the player controlling the ability doesn’t demonstrate awareness of the trigger’s existence the first time that it would affect the game in a visible fashion.
The point by which the player needs to demonstrate this awareness depends on the impact that the trigger would have on the game:

A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state: The controller must take the appropriate physical action before any game actions that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved.
In layman's term, Nadia had until the point at which Alan did anything else during his turn to point out the trigger. Alan then proceeded to play a land, which clearly can only happen after Alan would have drawn the second card.
Because it is still within a turn, Alan can choose to put Nadia's detrimental trigger on the stack and draw an extra card if he so chooses.
Note that, even if he wanted to, Alan can't add Nadia's other missed draw trigger from the previous turn to the stack:

From the IPG:
If the triggered ability was missed prior to the current phase in the previous player's turn, instruct the players to continue playing.
We are now in Alan's main phase (because he played a land) and Nadia's other missed trigger was during her draw phase in the previous turn, which is beyond of the time frame allowed within the IPG to retroactively put missed triggers on the stack. Note that the phrase ‘turn cycle’ is an obsolete term which is no longer referred to in the current version of the IPG.

Stay tuned for our next Knowledge Pool scenario!

Edited Raymond Fong (June 17, 2014 03:18:03 PM)