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Competitive REL » Post: Don't Haste Creatures ETB Tapped and Attacking?

Don't Haste Creatures ETB Tapped and Attacking?

Aug. 5, 2014 02:57:12 AM

Glenn Fisher
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific Northwest

Don't Haste Creatures ETB Tapped and Attacking?

Albuquerque taps 3 mana, and puts Chandra's Phoenix onto the table tapped, saying “take two - put you to 12”. Nashville thinks for a second before announcing “Last Breath”, to which Albuquerque responds with a Rubblebelt Makka bloodrush activation “make that five - put you to 9”. At this point, Nashville calls a judge and says he's playing Last Breath during the Begin Combat step despite not explicitly rewinding the Phoenix attack. The Phoenix is still sitting on the table, tapped.

How would you handle this?

If you'd rule for Albuquerque: Is it any different if Nashville has blue mana available and says “Resolves. Last Breath.” rather than just “Last Breath.”

If you'd rule for Nashville: Is it any different if Albuquerque had waited for Nashville to let Phoenix resolve and then attacked with it (only failing to acknowledge Nashville's priority between Main Phase One and Declare Attackers).

Aug. 5, 2014 08:23:46 AM

Nicholas Brown
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Great Lakes

Don't Haste Creatures ETB Tapped and Attacking?

My first question would be to ask Nashville why he didn't call a judge BEFORE casting last breath? He would have to have a REALLY good answer that would make me want to back up. Ultimately I would leave the game as is, the Phoenix is attacking, bloodrushed, and last breath is on the stack.

I don't see why it would matter if Nashville had blue mana available. If Nashville was countering the phoenix then it would be countered. Him saying resolves, Last Breath doesn't make anything more clear. If Nashville intended to Last Breath before attacker its his responsibility to explicitly say when he is acting.

Aug. 5, 2014 09:54:54 AM

Steve Guillerm
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

Don't Haste Creatures ETB Tapped and Attacking?

If Nashville says “Resolves, Last Breath” in one fluid statement, I'd rule that he is implicitly saying, “resolves, when I would next have priority, Last Breath.” That makes it clear that Last Breath is being played during the pre-combat main phase. It is a rejection of Albuquerque's implicit proposed shortcut of going directly to declare attackers by way of putting Chandra's Phoenix into play tapped.

By saying nothing at all in the first example to back up Albuquerque's proposed shortcut, Nashville has accepted it. Nashville didn't say that he wanted to back up to Beginning of Combat until after ABQ performed a timing-restricted action that would counter his spell.

As always, more communication is better. I believe that in the “resolves, Last Breath” example, Nash is being deliberate and clear. In the other one, he has made a mistake, and is hoping for a sympathetic judge ruling to fix his mistake.

Aug. 5, 2014 10:01:22 AM

Eric Paré
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Don't Haste Creatures ETB Tapped and Attacking?

Originally posted by Glenn Fisher:

How would you handle this?

I am inclined to agree with Nick (EDIT: and Steve) here and say that the game is currently past the beginning of combat step and the creature is attacking.

Magic is a game of communication, both verbal and nonverbal. Creatures don't (usually) enter the battlefield tapped and attacking; players put them into play that way as a means to shortcut from the pre-combat main phase all the way to the combat damage step to save time. This is a widespread shortcut and it's used all the time in games. Players don't have the opportunity to “gotcha” their opponents by warping these shortcuts,

If Nashville wanted to wipe out the creature during the beginning of combat step, he needed to communicate that intent to Albuquerque, most likely by stopping Albuquerque's shortcut at that point in the game so the Phoenix is not yet attacking.

Edited Eric Paré (Aug. 5, 2014 10:02:17 AM)

Aug. 5, 2014 10:18:58 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Don't Haste Creatures ETB Tapped and Attacking?

Albuquerque proposes a shortcut past a few priority passes (resolving Phoenix, end of first Main Phase, end of Beginning of Combat, right into Declare Attackers, which he's now done). Nashville can interrupt that shortcut at whatever point he wants.

Does it matter that Nashville didn't clarify when he wanted to interrupt until everything got all mucked up? Yeah, but not in any way that affects what's happened here. Both players did things that they could (and probably should) have done more correctly & clearly.

But Nashville is still allowed to interrupt that shortcut wherever he wants, right? Hmmm… that's not so clear:
Originally posted by MTR 4.2:

A player may interrupt a tournament shortcut by explaining how he or she is deviating from it or at which point in the middle he or she wishes to take an action
That suggests that Nashville failed, as he didn't explain “at which point in the middle” he was acting.

However, another MTR quote seems relevant here:
A statement such as “I'm ready for combat” or “Declare attackers?” offers to keep passing priority until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step. Opponents are assumed to be acting then unless they specify otherwise.
While Albuquerque didn't explicitly state “Combat” (or anything of the kind), his actions imply this shortcut (along with skipping resolution of the Phoenix). Thus, Nashville is “assumed to be acting {in the beginning of combat step}”.

Granted, I wasn't there, I have no idea how my investigation would go … but, given just these facts, I'd rule that the Bloodrush was played illegally, Last Breath is on the stack targeting an *untapped* Phoenix, and we're still in the Beginning of Combat. Albuquerque needs to learn not to rush things so much.

d:^D

P.S. kudos to Glenn for forcing judges all over to learn how to spell Albuquerque!

Edited Scott Marshall (May 19, 2015 10:37:28 AM)