Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Knowledge Pool Scenarios » Post: Teacher's Pet - SILVER

Teacher's Pet - SILVER

Oct. 25, 2014 10:31:25 PM

Marc DeArmond
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northwest

Teacher's Pet - SILVER

Originally posted by Matheus Martins Vieira:

Ashamed committed a Game Rule Violation - Drawing Extra Cards.

I think the phrase you're looking for here is a Game Play Error - Drawing Extra Cards. Game Rule Violations are within the category of Game Play Errors (section 2) but are a separate infraction. An infraction can be either a GPE-DEC or a GPE-GRV.

Oct. 25, 2014 10:36:02 PM

David Wright
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

Teacher's Pet - SILVER

Before reading other's responses: This one seems fairly straightforward. I did double-check in the IPG, but my immediate conclusion is that the appropriate ruling is GPE-DEC. The nuance to the situation is that the incorrectly drawn card was drawn into an empty hand. It's in a spot where it's uniquely identifiable— I can turn to the opponent, ask “can you, with absolute certainty, point to the incorrectly drawn card” and get a yes. In such a case, the normal penalty of Game Loss should be downgraded to a warning. I'll return the card to the library, ask both players if any effects have placed known cards anywhere in the library (unlikely, given that in theory our AP just shuffled), then give it a good shuffle and present it to the opponent.

Now reading other replies, aaaaand… oooh. derp. we're resolving a tutor here. don't shuffle the tutored card back into the library. Brain fart, but I'm glad said fart occurred here, instead of at the table.

And yeah, confirm that the life was lost, ask the players to play more carefully, and move along.

Oct. 28, 2014 09:54:30 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Northwest

Teacher's Pet - SILVER

As shown by all the great answers, the point of this scenario was to ensure that we all saw that latest change to the IPG - a change that I think a lot of Judges really wanted: adding “or was placed into an empty hand” to the conditions that allow a downgrade from Game Loss for Drawing Extra Cards. Well done - and even though we didn't seem to “fool” anyone with this one, it still helps to reinforce an important, if subtle, change.

So: this is a Game Play Error - Drawing Extra Cards, which usually carries a Game Loss, but that latest update to the IPG allows us to downgrade when the card is placed into an empty hand. Put the one card in Ashamed's hand back on top of his library, make sure he remembered to pay 2 life when he cast Vampiric Tutor, and record a GPE - DEC downgraded to Warning on their result slip.

One minor nitpick: a few people mentioned “uniquely identifiable” to describe the card drawn into an empty hand. That term is actually used in the IPG, but only for those Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation situations that might require an upgrade (e.g., failing to reveal the card found when resolving a Mystical Tutor). While it's seemingly harmless in this case, let's be careful about mixing parts of one section of policy into another.

Thanks to everyone for participating, let's see what the KP team has for y'all in the next scenario!

d:^D

Oct. 29, 2014 05:18:04 PM

Matheus Martins Vieira
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

Brazil

Teacher's Pet - SILVER

Originally posted by Marc DeArmond:

Matheus Martins Vieira
Ashamed committed a Game Rule Violation - Drawing Extra Cards.

I think the phrase you're looking for here is a Game Play Error - Drawing Extra Cards. Game Rule Violations are within the category of Game Play Errors (section 2) but are a separate infraction. An infraction can be either a GPE-DEC or a GPE-GRV.

Yes. Thanks.