Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Knowledge Pool Scenarios » Post: Drawing in, the hard way - GOLD

Drawing in, the hard way - GOLD

Oct. 27, 2015 01:53:17 PM

Mani Cavalieri
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), GP Team-Lead-in-Training

USA - Northeast

Drawing in, the hard way - GOLD

Ah, I had misread the scenario (I was somehow under the impression that the first and only game they drew happened when the match next to them ended…you can see why I was stuck on “where is that 3 coming from?”) - my apologies, and thanks for your patience in pointing that out to me!

I don't have any issue with 1-1-3 here, for the same reasons I was arguing for 1-1-1 (before I'd realized they actually did begin, play, and draw 2 additional games).

Oct. 27, 2015 01:57:55 PM

Bryan Li
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

Drawing in, the hard way - GOLD

I'm for 1-1-3 here - two games ended with a winner, so we should report those. That leaves us with 1-1-X, and since three games were drawn 1-1-3 seems like the correct option. 0-0-3 doesn't reflect the actual games played and game results.

Oct. 27, 2015 10:57:47 PM

Marcos Sanchez
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Foundry)), Tournament Organizer

USA - Southeast

Drawing in, the hard way - GOLD

First off, there is no infraction or penalty here. Everything was handled within the rules and the other judge reports there was no slow play or stalling, so everything is all well and good there.

When it comes to the reporting question - this is actually a topic myself and some other local judges were discussing not too long ago since we ended up in this exact scenario. The MTR (2.4 Conceding or Intentionally Drawing) does explicitly state that an intentional draw must be reported as 0-0-3, although I can see why some people would want to report actual games played and won. Specifically the sentence before how Intentional Draws are reported saying that if a player concedes after having actually won a game the match should be reported as 2-1 to reflect that could make it seem as if it should be reported as 1-1-3.

This brings up an interesting discussion point - what if the players played one game, and Player A won, they begin their second game, playing in a timely manner, and the game next to them finishes and they agree to draw during the 2nd unfinished game? Is one player required to concede to even the results and then go 1-1-3? If it's reported as it stands, Player A would win the match as they won a game in the match at 1-0-3.

Ambiguous situations like this further reinforce the MTR definition of how Intentional Draws must be reported. While it's tempting to report game wins, if the end result is an intentional draw, it's more clear to keep a uniform standard of “0-0-3” - therefore, I'd stick to the guideline of the MTR and report 0-0-3 for the ID.

Oct. 28, 2015 10:52:26 PM

David Larrea
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

Iberia

Drawing in, the hard way - GOLD

Greetings Judges, it's time to wrap this up!

This week we had a GOLD scenario which means it's not easy to solve but many of you answered correctly. There is no infraction here.
Let's have a look at some official documents to justify this answer:
IPG 4.7 Stalling
A player intentionally plays slowly in order to take advantage of the time limit. If the slow play is not intentional, please refer to Tournament Error — Slow Play instead.

MTR 2.4 Conceding or Intentionally Drawing Games or Matches
If a game or match is not completed, players may concede or mutually agree to a draw in that game or match. A
match is considered complete once the result slip is filled out or, if match slips are not being used, a player leaves
the table after game play is finished. Until that point, either player may concede to or draw with the other, though
if the conceding player won a game in the match, the match must be reported as 2-1. Intentional draws are always
reported as 0-0-3.

MTR 5.2 Bribery
Players may not reach an agreement in conjunction with other matches. Players can make use of information regarding match or game scores of other tables. However, players are not allowed to leave their seats during their match or go to great lengths to obtain this information.

The players were not slow playing, so this is not Stalling, and while it doesn't make much strategic sense, they're completely within their rights to draw the current game and move on to the next at any point. Neither have they gone to great lengths to obtain this information. So, these actions are legal.
Instruct Allison that she's right - because they each won a game before eventually drawing three games and the match, and all games that are played are expected to be reported, their match slip should list one win for each of them, and three draws, 1-1-3.

The MTR specifies 0-0-3 for Intentional Draws; this applies if players just agree to a draw without playing any games. Once a game has begun, it should be reflected on the result slip.

Thanks all for participating and see you soon!