Hello my friends and welcome back to another exciting Knowledge Pool scenario! This week we have Bronze scenario, so judges who have judged more than a couple Competitive REL events, if they would be so kind, should wait until Sunday before they reply. Thanks!!

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/knowledgepool/?p=2068

Adam is playing against Nick in a sealed PPTQ. Adam controls Munda, Ambush Leader, and has just put a Kor Ally token into play via Retreat to Emeria's landfall trigger. Adam says, “Munda trigger,” then accidentally grabs the top 5 cards of his library and starts to look at them when Nick calls for a judge.

What do you do?

First, we need to investigate, if I suspect cheating(that's always an option, although very unlikely) DQ, otherwise a warning for LEC , shuffle a random card from the 5 he looks at back to the random portion of his library, as per the IPG 2.2, and remind Adam to play more carefully.

Barring no Cheating, this seems like straightforward LEC. However;

If a player is instructed to perform an action to a set of cards on the top of his or her library and adds too many cards to that set, the infraction is Drawing Extra Cards, but any remedy is applied to that set of cards.

Even though the player doesn't put the cards into their hand as the ability resolves, by the IPG this is Game Play Error–Drawing Extra Cards. Issue Adam a Warning (assuming he hasn't committed any other penalties, or at least enough previous DEC's to not warrant an upgrade). We apply the “Thoughtsieze fix” to that set of cards Adam looked at off the Munda trigger–Adam reveals the five cards he saw from the Munda trigger, Nick picks one to shuffle into the random portion of Adam's library, and Adam can now finish resolving the trigger. Remind Adam to play more carefully.

Edited Matt Cooper (Dec. 12, 2015 05:05:13 PM)

With the October ‘15 DEC policy changes, scenarios like this fulfill the DEC requirements concerning the part where the ’extra' card was, which in this case is the top 5 of the library.
The penalty is DEC and a Warning, the fix should be that the NAP chooses 1 of the 5 Munda cards and AP shuffles it into his deck, then the AP gets to resolve the ability with the 4 remaining cards.
There's not much room for investigation if AP says it was an accident, but you can always remind the player to draw/look at cards one at a time to prevent this in the future

I believe we have a situation of Drawing Extra Cards.

This is not dissimilar to the much discussed Dig Through Time situation. In the policy for that, the following statement now exists (pulled from Tweaking the new DEC Rules, since my MTG App doesn't appear to have the change that I could find), “If a player is instructed to look at a set of cards on top of his or her library in order to perform further actions on them and they look at too many cards, the infraction is Drawing Extra Cards, but any remedy is applied to that set of cards. This does not apply to a dexterity error where the additional card is clearly separate from the ones being looked at.” This fits what has happened in this case.

To fix, I'd have Adam reveal the 5 cards in question to Nick. Nick would be allowed to select one card, to be shuffled back into Adam's library (taking into account any known cards due to other effects earlier in the game). Adam would be then allowed - AFTER the shuffle was completed - to finish resolving the trigger by ‘revealing’ any Allies remaining and proceeding from that point of the instructions forward.

GPE-DEC to Adam, no warning or penalty to Nick.

I'd advise Adam to be more careful of his triggers going forward, ask if there was anything else I could do, and move along.

GPE-DEC for Adam with a warning, no penalty for Nick.

While this seems to very clearly meet the requirements for LEC there is a specific line in DEC that matches this issue perfectly:

If a player is instructed to perform an action to a set of cards on the top of his or her library and adds too many cards to that set, the infraction is Drawing Extra Cards, but any remedy is applied to that set of cards.

As an additional remedy we have Adam reveal the 5 cards, Nick will select one of these to be shuffled into a random portion of Adam's deck then Adam will complete resolution of the Munda ability.

What kind of questions do you guys ask the players?

Originally posted by Meghan Baum:

What kind of questions do you guys ask the players?

This scenario seems pretty straight forward. The two things I'd be doing would be:

1. Asking to have both players step me through what happened. I'm not expecting a change in either story, but it's always good to confirm both players verify the same story.

2. I'd absolutely make sure to ask about what parts of the library are known. Scry is a thing - as are a number of other card effects that can leave someone knowing a part of their library. Any fix dealing with a library needs to take this into account. (I'd also take a glance at the graveyard as well - sometimes players ‘forget’).

Lastly - I always ask if they have any other questions before I leave a table. It's an important point of customer service for me.

Cheers,
Charles

Originally posted by Meghan Baum:

What kind of questions do you guys ask the players?

I'd ask who first pointed out the mistake, then I would ask how the cards were picked up (one at a time, in a clump, 2 then 3?). I think those two are good first steps in determining if anything shady is going on.

I agree with the DEC ruling that seems to be prevalent. Keep in mind to check for known card positions when applying the fix!

I mentioned this in my initial response, but asking Adam if he has received any other DEC Warnings during the tournament is relevant. (At a larger event, it's worth double-checking with the scorekeeper, though easier to keep track of at, say, a PPTQ.) It'll determine if we need to upgrade or not.

On that same vein, I might ask if Adam has made a similar type of error earlier in the tournament (maybe this isn't the first time he's seen five off of a Munda trigger). It's something that helps in a potential Cheating investigation, but if it's not Cheating then it provides an opportunity for education so this does not happen again if he keeps thinking it's 5 cards.

As many of you said this is Drawing Extra Cards. An extra card was added to a set of cards coming off the top of the deck. This is a Warning. The fix is to take the 5 cards and reveal them to Nick. Nick chooses one of those cards and it is shuffled into the random portion of his library.