Hello all, welcome back to the Knowledge Pool! This week's scenario is Silver, so L2+ judges should wait until Saturday before diving in.

The blog post for this scenario is here: http://blogs.magicjudges.org/knowledgepool/?p=2186

Aang is playing against Naya in a Standard PPTQ. Aang controls an Eldrazi Mimic and casts a Walker of the Wastes. Aang asks if he can go to attacks, which Naya confirms. Aang declares the Mimic as an attacker, and Naya blocks with her Spawnbinder Mage. Aang says, “Ok, damage, yours dies,” to which Naya responds, “No, yours dies. Judge!”

What do you do?

We are in a competitive event. A non-target trigger would be missed, if it makes a difference in the game state and then not be told correctly (sorry for my english). In this case, its not so. The first time the power/toughness of a creature makes a difference in this case is when he deals combat damage. When Aaron says, the 2/4 creature dies due to that, he did not miss the trigger (Mimic is now 4/4).
For me, everything is fine, no warnings, Spawnbringer dies, Mimic survives.

Based on the fact that Eldrazi Mimics trigger says “may”, I'd suggest that to be a choice required on resolution and as that choice hadn't been acknowledged, it's grounds for a missed trigger.

Edited Alfred Bellinger (Feb. 27, 2016 08:56:56 AM)

As the trigger creates a change that is not visible, the controller had until the change would first affect the visible boardstate to acknowledge it happened - In this case when damage was being assigned. No warnings, advise Naya the Mimic is a 4/4 and their Mage is dead.
I would also advise Aang that while they did nothing wrong, clearer communication/trigger-awareness is advised in future.

Edited Jonathan McCullough (Feb. 27, 2016 12:03:47 PM)

I would rule that Aang failed to make a choice on the resolution of the Mimic's triggered ability and he has therefore missed his trigger. The Mimic's ability is covered by the comprehensive rules:

Originally posted by Comp Rules 603.5:

Some triggered abilities' effects are optional (they contain “may,”…). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intents to exercise the ability's option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves.

Failing to make a choice on the resolution of a triggered ability means that it's missed.

IPG
A triggered ability that… requires a choice upon resolution: the controller must… make it clear what the action to be taken or choice made is before taking any game actions (such as casting a sorcery spell or explicitly taking an action in the next step or phase) that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved.

Since Aang missed his trigger, his Mimic is a 2/1 and will die once combat damage happens.

Aang can have Eldrazi Mimic's triggered ability trigger and resolve without telling the opponent until the first time it becomes relevant (just like triggers from Prowess). My ruling would be that the Eldrazi Mimic indeed is a 4/4 and that the Spawnbinder Mage would die.

I would in addition educate the players that this information is free and that they can ask their opponent about P/T at any time.

I would investigate a little further. Did Aang do anything different with his mimic such as point at it? This actually came up in ProTour Modern recently. I would ask each person - if anyone is salty, ask them each away from each other, how they interpreted the actions of their perepective opponent. So I'd better understand what was taking place - before I ruled. Then - more than likely, I would explain with each player how important communicating expected triggers resolving can be. If Aang truly missed his trigger: his opponent has an opportunity to place it on the stack, if they decide not to, it's a missed trigger. If they do place it on the stack: then Aang would receive a warning with a repeated caution on communicating more Cleary.

Hi Billy,

I have some additional questions to your rsolution.

Originally posted by Billy Ray:

If Aang truly missed his trigger: his opponent has an opportunity to place it on the stack, if they decide not to, it's a missed trigger. If they do place it on the stack: then Aang would receive a warning with a repeated caution on communicating more Cleary.

At which step in the combat would you place the trigger on the stack? If I understand the scenario correctly, players are currently in the Combat Damage Step.

Regarding the Warning - do you suggest to give Aang a Warning for a Communication Policy Violation?

I went back and forth on this one. The conclusion I came to is that this triggered ability doesn't make a visible change to the game state BUT does require a choice on resolution which requires you to make the choice clear before taking game actions (i.e. swinging at your opponent).

IPG 2.1 Triggered Ability Point of Awareness
"A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a choice upon resolution"

This means the trigger is NOT like a prowess trigger.

My ruling is that the trigger is missed. Remedy is giving the opponent the opportunity to put the trigger on the stack. If they do put it on the stack, put it on immediately. There is no warning because the trigger is not detrimental to the person who controls it.

Finally, Communication Policy Violation: Aang has misrepresented free information (?) because he thought he hadn't missed his trigger. There might be a case for CPV, I'm actually just unsure. Even if there was, would this prevent Aang from getting one?

IPG 1.2
"Infractions with the same root cause, or multiple instances of the same infraction that are
discovered at the same time, are treated as a single infraction."

Or am I mixing stuff up?

Edited Jon Munck (Feb. 28, 2016 06:41:47 AM)

As far as I can tell, the ipg has two separate paragraphs under section 2.1 concerning triggers like prowess and this mimic trigger respectively.

“A triggered ability that affects the game state in non-visible ways: The controller must make the change known by the first time the change has an effect on the visible game state.”

(This seems to cover triggers like prowess and battle cry where there is no choice made)

“A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a choice upon resolution: The controller must take the appropriate physical action or make it clear what the action to be taken or choice made is before taking any game actions (such as casting a sorcery spell or explicitly taking an action in the next step or phase) that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved. ”

(since the mimic trigger says “may”, we know that it requires a choice. Therefore, mimic stays unchanged since we have performed actions after it would trigger)

I rule that mimic dies. It's unfortunate that that this error occurs as much as it does, because I'm sure that it is due (in many occasions) to the active player shortcutting to save time. Play.swing.go!

Edited Patrick Gibbs (Feb. 28, 2016 02:41:03 PM)

Just a minor side question.

Originally posted by Jon Munck:

Remedy is giving the opponent the opportunity to put the trigger on the stack. If they do put it on the stack, put it on immediately

If the opponent lets the trigger to go on the stack, will it resolve before the Mimic dies? At which step of Combat is the game now? Are we in Combat Damage Step? Or are we in Declare Blockers Step (and players will have priority before the game proceeds to Combat Damage Step)?

Originally posted by Lars Harald Nordli:

I would in addition educate the players that this information is free and that they can ask their opponent about P/T at any time.

Hey Lars,

I'd have a side note here. Is the P/T of a creature on the board free information at all times, or is there something that is different in this scenario that makes the P/T free information? Thanks!

Aang has missed the trigger on the Eldrazi Mimic. Due to the ‘may’ clause in this creature's ability it is a trigger that requires a choice upon resolution which if it is not made will result in the trigger being missed. The relevant clause is (my emphasis):

Originally posted by = IPG: Missed Trigger:

A triggered ability that causes a change in the visible game state (including life totals) or requires a choice upon resolution: The controller must take the appropriate physical action or make it clear what the action to be taken or choice made is before taking any game actions (such as casting a sorcery spell or explicitly taking an action in the next step or phase) that can be taken only after the triggered ability should have resolved.

As this is not a detrimental trigger there is no upgrade and Aang receives no penalty.

As a remedy Naya may choose to have the trigger added to the bottom of the stack, but in this instance regardless of the choice it will not resolve in time to save the mimic. This is because we are in the Combat Damage Step resolving state based actions just before the active player would get priority (CR 510.4) - we know this because they had both reached a point where creatures were dying due to combat damage and this is the only place that can be happening.

Originally posted by Jon Munck:

Finally, Communication Policy Violation: Aang has misrepresented free information (?) because he thought he hadn't missed his trigger. There might be a case for CPV, I'm actually just unsure. Even if there was, would this prevent Aang from getting one?

IPG 1.2
"Infractions with the same root cause, or multiple instances of the same infraction that are
discovered at the same time, are treated as a single infraction."

Or am I mixing stuff up?

The information is derived not free but, as you rightly note this is rooted in the Missed Trigger so we treat it as that not CPV - as the saying goes; “Its never CPV”.

I would verify the flow of events from both players. Assuming that Aang made no acknowledgement of the Eldrazi Mimic trigger (cast Walker of the Wastes, move to combat), I would rule this as a Missed Trigger. Eldrazi Mimic has a “may” and requires a choice to be made upon resolution (whether you want to change its power and toughness or not), and since Aang did not make any indication towards it, the default applies and it remains a 2/1. Naya has the option of putting the trigger on the stack, but I imagine she will decline.