Originally posted by Àre Maturana:I don't think this is that bad. You can have an identical scenario with gonti, lord of luxury where it will also be known what the “missing” card is.
C: The same situation as B, but earlier this game I had the chance to go through my library (maybe with a fetchland or with Attune with Aether). While going through it, I noticed the only planeswalker I play, Arlinn Kord, is missing. I deduce it is under the Bomat.
Originally posted by Àre Maturana:With hideaway lands you do know the exiled card so maybe two different paragraphs are in order here: one for known hidden cards and one for unknown.
I think we need an actual paragraph covering cards in hidden zones outside of the library. It could cover Botmat courier, Pyxis of Pandemonium or hideaway lands for example.
Originally posted by Àre Maturana:So do I.
Don't get me wrong, we found what's written on the IPG so we apply it. But it's not because it is official it isn't broken, so we should at least discuss it to see if it needs a change. And I believe it does.
“Once those cards have joined another set, the infraction is handled as a Hidden Card Error or Game Rule Violation.”
So this means, I can only apply LEC if the card hasn't touched the other set yet. Situation A definitely belongs in here.
This infraction only applies when a card whose identity is known to only one player is in a hidden set of cards both before and after the error."
Since it can't be a HCE, we only have GRV left. So be it.
Edited Toby Hazes (Dec. 13, 2016 06:25:38 AM)
Originally posted by Toby Hazes:I might be missing something here but I don't get how legally searching your library and noticing a card missing so concluding that it is underneath the courier is L@EC.
When does this make B & C stop being L@EC? What is the “other set” here?
If I understand the scenarios correctly, those are just looking at a hidden card or a hidden pile of cards without putting them anywhere else?
Edited Toby Hazes (Dec. 13, 2016 08:27:29 AM)
Originally posted by Wendra Djati Kamadjaja:
Hello, i have a question.. If NAP have pithing needle and name bomat courier as pithing needle enter the battlefield, AP activate bomat courier ability (he/she forget about pihting needle) which have 4 cards in exiled and currently no hand, after resolve NAP just realize AP can activated bomat courier act ability.. Is it GRV or HCE and what the best remedy for this situation.?
Originally posted by Toby Hazes:
Similar to picking up the other player's hand for whatever reason (No Emrakuls involved).
Originally posted by David Poon:well, that also applies to (B), (C), and (D).
(A) … Scott beat me to this.
Originally posted by David Poon:No.
Could we treat this as HCE
Originally posted by David Poon:
(B), (C), (D) Could we treat this as HCE, reveal the set to the opponent, choose 0 cards, and continue playing? Not technically supported in the remedy section, but seems to fit the philosophy of “error can be mitigated by giving the opponent sufficient knowledge…”
Originally posted by Théo CHENG:
If you want to do that, you probably have to change the definition of HCE beforehand. There is no cards moving from a set to another in this case and this is what HCE currently applies to.
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