Edited Jacopo Strati (Jan. 18, 2017 03:12:01 PM)
Originally posted by Jon Goud:
Since policy says extra cards in a set are HCE *unless* they are the result
of dexterity errors we must discover the source of the error.
Q: “Why did you pick up 4 cards instead of 3 for your ponder?”
A1: “Because they stuck together” or “I accidentally grabbed an extra one”
= LEC
A2: “I was distracted by a cool cosplay and thought it was Fact or Fiction
for a second” or some version of “I thought I was supposed to pick up 4” =
HCE
Originally posted by Jon Goud:
A1: “Because they stuck together” or “I accidentally grabbed an extra one”
= LEC
A2: “I was distracted by a cool cosplay and thought it was Fact or Fiction
for a second” or some version of “I thought I was supposed to pick up 4” =
HCE
Originally posted by L@EC Philosophy:
A player can accidentally look at extra cards easily and this infraction handles situations where a dexterity or rules error has led to a player seeing cards in a library that they shouldn’t have. Cards are considered to be in a library until they touch cards in another set. Once those cards have joined another set, the infraction is handled as a Hidden Card Error or Game Rule Violation.
Edited Scott Marshall (Jan. 19, 2017 12:11:01 PM)
Originally posted by Scott Marshall:
The first part of that mentions dexterity or rules error; yes, we can apply L@EC if they somehow thought they should look at 4 instead of 3. The second part of that may be what's tripping up some of us; Ponder never moves those cards from the library, it just lets you look at them - so they remain part of the library, and not another set. (Granted, a player might pick up cards for Ponder and add them to their hand - e.g., Ponder(Brain)storm…)
Originally posted by Policy Changes for Aether Revolt:
We also took this opportunity to do put some more definition around the LEC/HCE border. The key is to look at whether the opponent intended (mistakenly or not) to pick up that many cards, or if they were trying to pick up the correct number and failed to do so thanks to bad dexterity (as opposed to bad counting!)
Originally posted by MIPG, Appendix B:
More detail on the LEC/HCE boundary. A player has to have intended to look at the cards.
Originally posted by Brian Schenck:
Which becomes more critical in terms of this set of cards joining another set of cards. Because, even at that point, it becomes HCE no matter the “cause” of the error.
But if “rules error” can lead to LEC… That seems to present some kind of wrinkle to things. Especially because that would seem to more shift the line here, even though the update would seem to indicate a tweak here.
This infraction only applies when a card whose identity is known to only one player is in a hidden set of cards both before and after the error.
Originally posted by Scott Marshall:
Ponder never moves those cards from the library, it just lets you look at them - so they remain part of the library, and not another set.
Originally posted by MIPG 1.5:
Some infractions in this document refer to “sets” of cards. A set is a physically distinct group of
cards defined by a game rule or effect. It may correspond to a specific zone, or may only
represent a part of a zone. A set may consist of a single card.
Originally posted by MIPG 2.3:This has to be a set to be considered HCE, because the definition of HCE demands it.
A player casts Anticipate and picks up the top four cards of her library.
Originally posted by MIPG 2.3:
The cards themselves must
be part of a distinct set intended by the player.
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