today, at the PTQ, following situation occurred.
AP controls Wingmate Roc and “its” 3/4 flying token, attacks with both. Defending player, sitting at two life, having several cards in hand, a plenty of mana available, with no relevant blockers, plays Bile Blight, targeting the Roc. AP says “o.k.”, Bile Blight goes to the graveyard and then both player pause for a while.
After this pause, AP takes his pen and scorepad, notices the opponents life total, saying “then..you take three and you are dead”. NAP takes his scorepad, realizes at the same moment, that the Bird token is actually 3/4 8and not 0/1, which he thought it is), and says “no, I am still not done, I want to play my Dig through Time first”.

Both players told the same story, very honest, both agreeing on details. NAP admits, he thought the Bird token was 0/1, but claimed, that the AP didn't communicated properly, that he wants to proceed to the Combat Dmg Step. He claimed, players usually ask something like “Damage, then?”, if they want to proceed to that step.

Upon investigation, AP said, he predicted, that after he has left some time after Bile Blight resolved to his opponent to play another spell, he assumed, that NAP passed and then he passes back (by not playing/activating anything else) and the next step (Combate Dmg step) follows.

How would you rule and why?

Allow the resolution of DTT. I do not believe a pause dictates passing of priority. I think AP asking if he was dead is him asking “do we go to damage?” To which NAP denied and casts a spell.

Originally posted by Tomas Joska:

AP said, he predicted, that after he has left some time after Bile Blight resolved to his opponent to play another spell, he assumed, that NAP passed and then he passes back.

After Bile Blight resolves, AP has priority, not NAP, so AP cannot go to the Combat Damage step just by “passing back” after NAP does nothing.

AP tipped his hand by saying that NAP is dead. He should have indicated clearly that he passed so that NAP could pass in turn. NAP is still alive.

After Bile Blight resolves, AP gets priority, and he has to give NAP priority if he wants to advance to damage step, there's where NAP plays DTT. I see no problem with that play.

to clarify the “priority part”:
By saying “o.k.”, AP meant “Bile Blight resolved, I have no more actions in Declare blockers step”.

I think that saying “o.k.” to a player casting a spell means that the spell can resolve, but it doesn't mean that “and afterward I have no play, so I pass priority.”
That's why I see that Dig Through Time should resolve. It was AP's responsibility to indicate passing priority, and “o.k.” Does not indicate that.
Even if it happens that it does indicate that, NAP also didn't indicate he is passing it back and thus going into combat damage step.

Edited Abdulrahman Alhadhrami (Feb. 1, 2015 09:34:15 PM)

I would say that both players agreed to move onto the damage step, and NAP realized too late his mistake. AP went to damage thinking there was 3 damage being dealt, and NAP went to damage thinking there was 0 damage being dealt, but it's clear that both players went to damage step.

I think that you can take into account that the NAP can be on a faulty tactical line, because he is from the presumption that he is now receiving 0 damage from the token.

I would ask the NAP: “when you were pausing; that was because you believed damage was about to come in, right?” If he answers “Yes”, than you tell him that you think the game is over because of the incoming incorrectly assumed combat damage.

If he answers “No”, try to find out what he thought that was going on. If you find out he is using this communication clutter in his advantage to quickly cast a DTT he could be on a slippery slope to a DQ, if in his explanation you feel that he is unaware if this specific shortcut (the waiting). In the latter case a GRV for casting a DTT when there is no priority.

Originally posted by Niki Lin:

if in his explanation you feel that he is unaware if this specific shortcut (the waiting). In the latter case a GRV for casting a DTT when there is no priority.

Is this an official shortcut?

I think most people here are being overly technical. From the story it is clear NAP thinks his Bile Blight will give both creatures -3/-3. What we should be discussing here is whether or not he missed his window to cast DTT.

And I am afraid the answer is not clear cut. My two cents.
- During AP's Combat, NAP dictates the passing of steps as each time NAP does something he needs to make sure NAP doesn't have effects before going to the next step.
- Doing nothing never, ever signifies anything. Any pause, no matter how long is not deemed passing priority.
- NAP clearly (for me) thinks he is not going to take damage, thus makes no attempt to adjust his life total.
- When AP asks him to take damage he is suggesting we are in the combat damage step. NAP hasn't indicated agreeing.
- NAP refuses having gone to combat damage and casts a spell in declare blockers.

Now, do I think NAP forgot and should be dead? Yes, I do. But if we look at it technically I don't think we can make this conclusion. All rules point in the direction he is in the clear. This is in the same vein that players can forget triggers but if they remember them in time for them not to be missed they still get them.
Is this a shitty lesson for AP to learn? Yes it is. Had he said something like “Anything else before we wrap up this combat?” Or “Sure, Bile Blight resolves, anything else?” He would have had a clear win.

edit: forgot an important ‘not’.

Edited Niels Viaene (Feb. 4, 2015 02:02:22 AM)

Originally posted by Niels Viaene:

Any pause, no matter how long is deemed passing priority.

Niels, did you mean to include a “not” in there - as in, “…pause…is NOT deemed passing priority”?

Just as “OK” doesn't necessarily mean “that resolves” or “pass priority” - it often just means “OK, I understand that you're doing that, I may respond” - we can't assume that a pause, no matter how long, means anything. (And I think that's what you're saying?)

d:^D

I'm rather troubled by the actions of the non active player here. The original post states, " NAP takes his scorepad, realizes at the same moment, that the Bird token is actually 3/4 8and not 0/1, which he thought it is), and says “no, I am still not done, I want to play my Dig through Time first”.

Sounds to me like the non active player missed this entirely and was ready for damage. I don't think the non active player was really intending to cast the DTT at all. Sounds like he's trying to cover up for his mistake and change reality.

At this point I'd be more inclined to start a DQ investigation with the non active player for lying.

Magic as played in real life isn't a game of precise priority passes and definite actions. A player can fully intend to “take it,” realize that the “it” is lethal, and make a different play as long as they haven't explicitly made a play decision. Put another way, lack of communication is not communication. A long pause isn't an explicit anything (except maybe Slow Play). AP correctly tried to move the action forward to damage, NAP declined. Picking up a scorepad is not an established shortcut for taking damage. In fact, there have been some bluffs based around picking up your pen to make your opponent think that you don't have a combat trick.

I also would advise against pursuing a DQ here. NAP originally believed that he would take zero damage. And when he realized his error, he wanted to “Dig” himself out of the situation. That's not lying. That's being human. Now you are free to investigate and you may discover that there was more explicit communication here. If I were AP and I thought that my opponent might have made this misunderstanding, I might say “I'll pass priority in declare blockers. Do you pass?” If they agree there, then “Ok. Take 3.” carries a lot more weight.