Would you give a USC if someone wore this shirt to a competitive event?

Shirt

Would you take any actions in a non-competitive environment?

I've seen this being worn in a Comp REL setting, and while I didn't take any action at the time… the more I think about it, the more I wish I at least talked to some fellow judges about it.

I agree that the hetero-normative nature of the shirt could be disturbing to alternate gender identities, however, I don't believe it falls into the USC area.

As USC minor it doesn't include anything I would consider vulgar or profane. And looking at it from a USC Major I don't see how it would be insulting. It is not indicating to be derogatory or otherwise negative to females, simply to prioritize the acquisition of currency over interpersonal relationships with female individuals.

Personally as a hetero-male identifying individual it just strikes me as bad advice so I might be tempted to indicate that the shirt is in poor taste, but I don't see how it could fall under either of the USC categories.

I'd be interested in hearing other, non-hetero-male, opinions on the potential offensive nature of the design however.

Originally posted by Erik Halverson:

the more I think about it, the more I wish I at least talked to some fellow judges

This is actually a good lesson for all of us.

I've often said “if you are uncomfortable with it, or if someone mentions something to you, take care of it”. (That would include asking the player to change or cover up their shirt, even turn it inside out, etc.)

However, your experience points out the flaw in my statement; let's try this, instead:

If you think someone might be uncomfortable with it, don't wait for them to work up the courage to say something, just go ahead and act.

Be polite, but be firm - explain that the message, while amusing to some, might be offensive to others, and it's “better safe than sorry” with something like this. You never know when someone will be (a) offended but (b) too shy or nervous or anxious to speak up. The worst outcome is that they decide not to come back to your store, because you allow offensive people there.

d:^D

I would, without hesitation, consider this offensive - it's nothing more than a “cleaned up” and “re-memed” version of a vulgar internet meme that is both sexist and profane.

In my mind, this occupies the same space as deck boxes with stickers on them that say “F*ck” or such.

TIL 90's hip hop is a vulgar internet meme.

2015-03-04 16:08 GMT-05:00 Nathaniel Lawrence <

Personally, I think if you are saying to yourself, “I wonder if this is offensive enough to talk to someone about,” it's USC-Minor. Note that the IPG specifically calls out that a player's action:

may affect the comfort level of those around the individual, but determining whether this is the case is not required.

I would absolutely instruct a player at one of my tournaments - no matter the REL - to cover that shirt or turn it inside out. At Comp REL, I would also give the wearer a USC-minor warning.

Edited Nathen Millbank (March 4, 2015 03:20:07 PM)

My 2 cents to throw a little oil on the fire:

The text is a meme that deliberately uses flowery words to hide, but still strongly hint at, the original phrase that contains some strong profanity (google it if you don't recognize it). It's effectively the same as “hiding” the profanity by using asterisks, like “f*** you”. It doesn't fool anyone, and to me, both are pretty much as unacceptable as the original words.

It's difficult to assess just how severe and/or USC-worthy something like this is, but regardless of the REL, the player will at the very least be staring down the business end of my best Dad Voice.

I will not let a shirt like that threaten the diversity of the playerbase at my events.

Originally posted by Dominik Chlobowski:

TIL 90's hip hop is a vulgar internet meme.

I've only ever seen it used in memes, so if it's got a source in music it's beyond me. That doesn't make it any less vulgar or more acceptable for a tournament environment, though.

Edited Rebecca Lawrence (March 4, 2015 03:26:36 PM)

Whether or not it is using “flowery” words to imply other things. The phrase “disregard women” is not some thing I would ever allow at an event. It's sexist.

This is one of those situations where I feel there's some grey area in that
it's not out and out offensive if you don't know the context to it. I would
feel content to ask the player to change their shirt, cover it up, turn it
inside out, etc. and be done with it. If the player refuses or presses the
issue, then I'd take steps from there to rectify that behavior.

I think I'm in the same area as George on this issue. I think there is a lot of gray area. If I saw someone wearing that shirt in public my first thought wouldn't be “man that's openly offensive”. If the individual was chanting the actual quote so that everyone would hear him then I would definitely say it's offensive. If this shirt were at an event and nothing else happened with it then I'd say the shirt is fine. It's not openly vulgar or offensive and is easily ignored by not looking at the shirt. If the individual was telling everyone he met about what it really meant and how that's his new life philosophy then at that point it is involving others in a distracting way.

I have pretty tough skin so it's hard to offend me. I try to keep that in mind when looking at things like this. With that in mind, I don't think it's my responsibility when purchasing clothing to ask if someone would be offended if I wore it. A similar situation would be if I wore a shirt that had the name of an edgy and pretty vulgar band. Am I then not allowed to wear that shirt because it hints at the terrible things said in that bands music? I'd say no. I was considerate enough to wear a shirt with just the band name and not their most controversial lyrics printed on it. It gives me a chance to show my personality while being publicly acceptable. In my opinion, we don't want to create an environment where people can't be themselves assuming it doesn't disrupt what's going on around them.

Another way to look at it without getting too deep in to the matter: If someone wore an openly religious article and I as someone of a different ideology didn't agree with it said it was offensive, would you ask that person to cover it up? note that they aren't preaching or acting around the article, just wearing it.

Edited Preston May (March 4, 2015 04:20:05 PM)

I have concerns that when we spend our time attempting to police the potential impact of the possibility of the perception that someone might conceivably be lead to recall a reference to another source that in some subset of certain populations may generate sensations, thoughts, or feelings of disquietude, perhaps we are treading well outside our area of expertise.

Let me draw an example: deck checks. If I were to check decks at any event–any event–I could find variations on the sleeves (or lack thereof) in every match. I suspect you could, too. How many times have you worked with judges and seen them stamping a deck on a table to line cards up, turning their heads sideways, and them leaning close in so they can look at the sleeves? This is what I call the “too much science” technique. I often see it with inexperienced judges, and it's an immediate sign of failure. If you see a player turning his head sideways and leaning in to draw a card, please just DQ the guy; don't take up time in a deck check trying to micro-analyze his deck. (Or DQ the person; don't waste time on their deck, if you prefer gender neutral wording.)

In any given deck, if you look hard enough, you will find discrepancies in functionally any deck. The job of judges isn't to put sleeves under a microscope; it's to provide reasonable levels of play. And yes, we leave ourselves the option to take additional action if ever a player expresses a concern about a player's sleeves.

I chose “expresses” very intentionally. Players may express in many ways. Verbally to a judge is most common to us. Verbally to friends is also (if not more) common. Body language, tone during other verbalization, and other expression pathways also could apply. We don't judge in a vacuum, and maintaining awareness of the non-verbal expressions around us helps us be better at what we do.

With sleeves, sometimes we know right away it's bad, sometimes it's worth a chat and change, sometimes it takes a player's expressing concern, and sometimes they are acceptable. Acceptable does not have to mean perfect in all ways, just within reasonable expectations.

I believe the best approach to clothing is similar.

If your impulse seeing a shirt is, “that's not ok,” then act right away. This may involve asking the TO to look into it rather than you taking action with the player. Generally, I recommend all clothing issues be handled via the TO as it is also their reputation at hand.

If your impulse is, “that's pretty sketchy,” consult with the TO or another judge and act if needed. Again, the TO perspective often helps here.

If your impulse is, “why would I pay no mind to women and seek to advance my pecuniary status?” then perhaps it's time to pay attention to how the players behave and react to see if they show expressions of discomfort.

Even if your impulse is “I love that shirt,” be open to discussion with people that may have their own concerns.

I have found that being welcoming of player feedback and giving player concerns real attention goes much more positively in the long term than any given shirt. If your players know or see that you are engaged in their enjoyment, they'll express more to you. And when players are happy and playing without concern, sometimes the right course is to be vigilant without being vigilante.

Ultimately, it is on you as the judge in your local event to understand your TO's perspective, know your players, learn what works or doesn't for them, and to set reasonable standards that balance self-expression and acceptable attitudes. As we go to larger events or other regions, talk with the seasoned judges about that area's or that TO's expectations. Seasoned judges can often help you get up to speed at unfamiliar events. There's not one answer to fit every case. Unlike some shirts, one size does not fit all.

Originally posted by John Carter:

Even if your impulse is “I love that shirt,” be open to discussion with people that may have their own concerns.

While John's entire post is worth reading & pondering, if you take nothing else from it, remember that quote.

d:^D

I am strongly against applying penalties for wardrobe choices.

I'd like to point out what I believe to be a very important detail thus far ignored by this discussion.

The definition for USC-Minor begins “A player takes an action…” All of the examples include active verbs. Although there is some (unsatisfactory, imho) argument that “wearing” constitutes an action, the otherwise normal display - ie, on playmat or shirt instead of, say, poster board - of inappropriate images or phrases does not meet the criteria for the infraction. We still have an interest in creating and maintaining a certain environment, so its always reasonable to to have an educational conversation, but any actual penalties would have to meet “example F: A player fails to follow the request…”

+1000 John Carter

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