Hi everyone, this is my first post here so I'll keep it short. I'm wondering, when is it Ok, if it is, to be both judge and player at a REL tournament??

Thank you for your answers!

My personal view is that if your events success will suffer if you are
playing in the event. i.e. unable to enter results on time, rounds take
longer, then you should not play in the event.

Otherwise if you can handle running the event and still have fun playing at
regular, battle away.

If judge is judging and playing in the event, is he supposed to wear Judge
attire, or not?

2013/1/23 Nick Rutkowski <forum-2649@apps.magicjudges.org>

A judge should never wear the Judge Shirt while playing or trading, in order to avoid the appearance of bias.

Originally posted by Oscar Amado:

be both judge and player at a REL tournament??

Oscar, I'm assuming you meant “Regular REL”. After all, at Competitive and Professional REL, you can't be both judge and player.

Most Regular REL events allow - even encourage - judges to also play in them. While we want to provide good service to our community - like Nick pointed out - we also need to be a part of that community. Nick's right, you have to balance playing vs. level of service.

Some Regular REL events specifically prohibit judges and organizers from playing; in such cases, the event paperwork (which may not actually consume any real paper) will specify this. Lacking that notice, it should be allowed. (And you should always check with your WPN representative if you have any doubts.)

David Zalesky
wear Judge attire, or not?

Great question - again, it's a service question. If you're playing with a group of regular players, they know who you are, and know you're a judge - wear what you want. But if you're expecting a lot of people who will benefit from a recognizable “uniform”, then it may be better to wear a STAFF or JUDGE shirt. In any case, it's OK to wear a judge shirt while playing in your own event.

Please, however, don't ever wear a judge shirt to someone else's event when you're playing. That's just not a good idea, on a few levels.

d:^D

I always play in my Regular REL Sunday draft. I have a “judge station” set up where I play my matches and my opponents know to come to me. Here I keep my laptop and all the prizing so at any time I can just reach over and record a match.

Most of my players are fairly experienced so I get about one judge call per match and it's usually a quick… “Hey if I Geistflame his Tarmag-” “No!” “Okay thanks!” If it's something more complicated I'll pause my match, apologize to my opponent and go deal with it, then take an extension.

The only complication comes up when you have to make a judge ruling against your own opponent and they disagree with it. Usually I've said, “Here's the ruling I'm making. I'll look it up later and show you. If I'm wrong I'll buy you a beer.” (We play in a pub). My opponent's always been happy with that. However, I haven't had to buy one yet.


Our local FNM has around 30-40 players of varying skill levels. While I could play, the number of judge calls I get makes it exceedingly difficult to maintain the game state and is frustrating for my opponent so I don't. Sometimes we'll get an EDH game going on the side, but most often I just wander and chat with people outside of their games.

The FNM I most ‘regularly’ attend has 60 players and two or more staff on
hand doing shopkeeping and scorekeeping. There is also many judges in the
event. We all help with judging and rulings per round is never greater than
the number of judges in the room. So there is commonly a judge playing in
one of the two events who has already finished their round available to
answer a call.

With that many players it wouldn't work without a non player doing the
scorekeeping I feel, but with lots of judges in the room the judging
doesn't interfere with play often.

I judge at local Regular REL events only. I think the store I frequent uses the WPN software to track scores and make pairings. What they told me is that I can't be in there as Head Judge if I'm also a player. I like being Head Judge, so most of the time I avoid playing. There are times when I'd rather play, so I buy my packs, wear regular attire, and go at it. In the cases where my opponent disagrees with my ruling, I explain the rule as best I can and call the judge if s/he still sees fit.

For Regular REL, being a Head Judge and a player is fine. Your store hasn't
read WPN policies correctly. Show them the following in MTR 1.4:

“Tournament officials may play in a DCI-sanctioned tournament for which
they are a tournament official if (and
only if) the tournament is of the following event types:
• Friday Night Magic
• Prerelease
• Launch Party
• Magic Game Day
• Other non-Premier Magic Tournaments
• Tournaments in which the official Wizards of the Coast tournament fact
sheet specifically permits
officials of that tournament to play
If one or more tournament officials play in the tournament, it must be run
at Regular REL. If tournament officials
play in the tournament and the tournament is not one of the allowed event
types listed above, the tournament will
be invalidated. Tournament officials are required to officiate tournaments
fairly and without regard to their own
self-interest.”

“Other non-Premier Magic Tournaments” covers pretty much everything at
Regular REL as far as I can tell.


2013/1/24 Roger Dunn <forum-2649@apps.magicjudges.org>

That's true that the MTR says that, but they claim their software doesn't let them do that. I don't know. At Prereleases I'd still rather judge than play because there are so many questions and I catch so many things just standing and watching games.
But I also wasn't answering the original question; just adding my experience.

They should be using the latest version of Wizards Event Reporter (WER) and
as thousands of judges can attest, it has no such limitation.

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Roger Dunn <forum-2649@apps.magicjudges.org
> wrote:

> That's true that the MTR says that, but they claim their software doesn't
> let them do that. I don't know. At Prereleases I'd still rather judge than
> play because there are so many questions and I catch so many things just
> standing and watching games.
> But I also wasn't answering the original question; just adding my
> experience.
>
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–
Adam Cetnerowski
Gdansk, Poland

To the best of my knowledge, (I just tested it.) the bug still exists. You
can get around that in WER by either enrolling yourself with your DCI
number instead of looking yourself up in the Local Players list, or by
enrolling as a player before being added as judge. =)


2013/1/24 Adam Cetnerowski <forum-2649@apps.magicjudges.org>

I only play in my own events if there is an odd number of players, so that nobody has to get a bye.

I always encourage the judges in my area to continue playing in FNM events when they can. Personally I find that as the event size goes up, it becomes harder and harder to play and judge, which is why I do not judge and play at our 75+ person FNMs, or 100+ person super FNMs. Smaller events, such as out Saturday modern (25 players avg), and Sunday legacy (30 players avg) I have no problem playing at all, and actually enjoy playing comp magic.

There is a concern that has come up in my shop in particular, and that is if the store is playing for more than a pack a win system, then their can become a conflict of interest when it comes to draws. In fact, if your FNM is more competitive in nature (or store awards store credit to top 8, ranging up to 100.00 for first for FNM) you should not play at all. Of course “competitive FNM” is something we should probably frown on as a whole.

Finally if you are an L2+ (or an experienced L1), finding a second judge for the store is always a good idea. Having more than one judge on the floor solves all of the “disputed calls” situations that can pop up. Also making sure you are playing magic correctly (announcing triggers, communicating, shuffling well, keeping a clear game state) will help avoid these issues.

On a personal note, when you get really involved in the program, especially at L2+ level, you will find the amount of time you get to play dwindles, especially with all the judge training, comp events, etc that you are expected to do at the store level.

Dominic

That is because you are listed under the judges tab in WER. They have to enroll you as a player from that tab