This question came up in my local meta as to if someone could use a proxy for a graded card they had with them at a vintage tournament. I know the mtr does not allow proxies at sanctioned events. But, if the card if physically present but not in a playable condition (by being in graded case) could this proxy use be seen as the same as a proxy replacement for a card becoming damaged during a tournament?

Nope, not in a sanctioned event.

If a card is damaged during the normal course of play, the HJ can create a proxy. This does not apply to a card that is unplayable before the event begins.

d:^D

Edited Mark Brown (Sept. 16, 2015 03:36:50 AM)

Originally posted by Robert Langmaid:

becoming damaged during a tournament

There is your answer: this card didn't become unplayable during the tournament, it was already unplayable at the start of the event.

The obvious solution is to have all 75 cards graded and practicign a lot with shuffling 60 glass casings ;)

But in all seriousness: no, proxies are explicitly not allowed in this scenario, we only use them for checklist cards, problematic product in limited events, and cards that were okay at the start of the event but became a problem during the tournament. Awesome to have a graded card, but as long as it's in the case, don't consider it to be part of your playable Magic card collection.

Edited Dustin De Leeuw (Sept. 7, 2015 08:01:05 PM)

Note that checklist cards for Double Faced Cards are explicitly *not* proxies. They are checklist cards.

MTR 3.4: Official checklist cards in the Innistrad™ Block and Magic Origins™ are Authorized Game Cards and may have a proxy issued by a judge. (Emphasis mine)

I'm fairly sure that that sentence means that if an Official Checklist Card
is damaged as to be rendered unplayable over the course of the tournament,
the Head Judge has the option to prox the checklist card as they would with
a non-checklist card.

No, I'm pretty sure it has a much broader meaning: imagine a player shows up with non-opaque sleeves and plays transform cards, we clearly have a problem. The easy fix here is to ask the player to use checklist cards in his deck, but what if he/she doesn't have them and there aren't any available for sale? For that type of scenario we are allowed to issue a proxy of a checklist. I really like it when a player comes to em before the start of an event to have their sleeves checked, and to see if their transform cards will cause any problems, and this is a good way to encourage that behaviour.

Note that players can not make a proxy of a checklist card themselves: as Kevin pointed out, they are official cards. But judges can issue a proxy per the MTR. Now what I wonder is the wording of this line: it says a judge, while usually proxies can aopnly be issued by the Head Judge. Is this intentional? Can any FJ create a checklist card proxy? Curious to hear what the intention behind this wording is!

Dustin I disagree - checklist cards are treated for all intents and purposes like normal magic cards. If a player doesn't own a normal magic card (or the one they bring to the event is marked before the event begins) we do not issue proxies. Similarly if a player doesn't own a checklist we don't issue proxies. If we did, then there would be no point in printing the checklist cards in the first place. We only issue proxies for checklists if they become damaged through tournament play.

I agree with Mark on this one and would ask the player to replace the
sleeves instead of issuing them a proxy.

-R.

2015-09-08 11:52 GMT+02:00 Mark Mc Govern <

Fortunately the annotated MTR has an answer!

The checklist cards are considered a game card like any other when it comes to determining if a proxy should be issued. Denote the card that the checklist card was referencing and that the proxy is for a checklist.

http://wiki.magicjudges.org/en/w/AMTR:Proxy_Cards

Which means that there's no reason to proxy a checklist card // double
sided card for someone who has non-opaque sleeves.

-R.

2015-09-08 13:54 GMT+02:00 Jeff S Higgins <

Then that sentence int he MTR is totally redundant and only leads to confusion… I had this exact discussion with a recent random Italian L5, and we both agreed that this was the way to interpret that sentence :( I stand corrected, thank you so much, because today I learned!

I'd assume you can issue proxies for checklist cards in a limited event in which there are no checklist cards available. Imagine a 8 man draft at a small store and no one happens to open a checklist card and the store doesn't have any but players crack a couple of Flipwalkers. You just grab a plains and write KYTHEON on it in big black letters.

I wouldn't do this for constructed, but limited is another matter.

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Marc DeArmond <
forum-21124-42ba@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> I'd assume you can issue proxies for checklist cards in a limited event in
> which there are no checklist cards available.


In this situation the player will need to use opaque sleeves.​ MTR 3.5
covers this.

Every pack with a double-faced card in Magic Origin should have a double-faced card taking the place of the basic land. Even if there is an issue with the product and that card is missing (which is dangerously close of a corner case), or more likely, the player opening it loses it, there is no provision in the MTR to create a proxy.

The player has the choice between playing with opaque sleeves, acquiring a replacement card for the one he or she lost, or not playing the double-faced card.

That would be a sad, but educational moment about bringing an appropriate pack of sleeves with you when you go play a limited format with double-faced cards.

- Emilien