Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Knowledge Pool Scenarios » Post: A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

Oct. 9, 2015 09:59:43 AM

Maria Alex Chernov
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Pacific West

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

Greetings, Judges!
Welcome back to another exciting Knowledge Pool scenario. This week we have Bronze scenario, so judges who have judged more than a couple Competitive REL events should wait until Saturday before they reply.

The blog post can be found here.

Anna is playing against Nick in a Standard PPTQ. At the end of Anna's turn, Nick casts Anticipate, sets his hand aside, and picks three cards from his library. When looking at them, he realizes that two of the cards were stuck together and he is looking at 4 cards now. Nick calls for a judge and you take the call.

What would you do?

Edited Patrick Vorbroker (Oct. 9, 2015 10:12:37 AM)

Oct. 9, 2015 10:09:44 AM

Dylan Rippe
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

Say hi, confirm that both players agree on the story, then assess the situation.

GPE-LEC for Nick. Per the IPG, LEC is defined as

A player looks at a card they were not entitled to see.

Nick receives a warning, we determine if there were any known locations of cards in the deck (from effects such as Anticipate, Scry, etc.), shuffle the unknown parts of the library, remind both players to play carefully in the future, ask if there's anything else I can do for them, then let them continue playing.




EDIT: After rereading the IPG and making sure it was the most recent one (Google failed me), I'm inclined to change my answer to GPE-DEC for Nick. Per the IPG, DEC has a clause that says

If a player is instructed to perform an action to a set of cards on the top of his or her library and adds too many cards to that set, the infraction is Drawing Extra Cards, but any remedy is applied to that set of cards.

Nick receives a warning, we determine if there were any known locations of cards in the deck (from effects such as Anticipate, Scry, etc.), Nick reveals those cards, Agnes picks one to be shuffled into the unknown parts of the library, remind both players to play carefully in the future, ask if there's anything else I can do for them, then let them continue playing.

Edited Dylan Rippe (Oct. 9, 2015 10:46:50 AM)

Oct. 9, 2015 10:38:41 AM

Robert Langmaid
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

Canada - Eastern Provinces

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

I believe under the new IPG this is GPE-DEC. Issue Nick a warning, as an additional remedy allow Anna to choose one of the four cards Nick picked up to shuffle back into the random portion of Nick's library. Then allow Nick to continue to resolve the Anticipate normally.

Oct. 9, 2015 10:47:20 AM

John Hornberg
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Pacific West

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

I would say it's a GPE: drawing extra cards, which is backed up in the IPG by Example E on 2.3:
A player casts Dig Through Time and picks up the top eight cards of his or her library.
The solution, I think, would be to apply the new fix for DEC to that specific set of cards. The active player (Anna) has the cards revealed to them, picks one, and it is shuffled back into the library after accounting for scryed cards and other known cards in the library. The nonactive player's (Nick) spell is then resolved with the remaining cards, and he is issued a warning.

Oct. 9, 2015 10:42:08 PM

Marcos Sanchez
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Foundry)), Regional Representative (USA - Southeast), Tournament Organizer

USA - Southeast

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

Well, after ruling out things like cheating and any other shadiness, and confirming with both players exactly what occurred, we arrive at the problem. Per the recent update to the IPG, this is now defined as GPE: Drawing Extra Cards, as Anna is making a choice to a set of cards on top of the library and added too many cards to the set to which he's supposed to interact with. The associated penalty would be a warning.

The fix would be applied to the cards that were to be looked at on the top of the library, so have Anna reveal to Nick her 4 cards she looked at or has in hand for Anticipate, and have Nick choose one to shuffle into the random section of the library. From there, continue resolving the spell with the remaining cards in the set.

Oct. 12, 2015 06:18:20 PM

Marc Shotter
Judge (Uncertified)

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

GPE-DEC with a warning for Nick.

As for the remedy we have Nick reveal the 4 cards from the anticipate to Anna - she selects one to be shuffled back into Nick's library (maintaining any known cards).

These are the relevant sections from the IPG:

If a player is instructed to perform an action to a set of cards on the top of his or her library and adds too many cards to that set, the infraction is Drawing Extra Cards, but any remedy is applied to that set of cards.

and this one:

…the player reveals his or her hand and the opponent selects a number of cards equal to the excess. Those cards are shuffled into the random portion of the deck.

Oct. 13, 2015 04:20:42 PM

Michiel Van den Bussche
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

BeNeLux

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

LEC, issue him a warning.

Oct. 15, 2015 11:13:36 PM

Maria Alex Chernov
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Pacific West

A Bit Impulsive - BRONZE

Here is the answer for this week's scenario!

Under the new IPG, it is Drawing Extra Cards. The remedy includes only cards that were looked at while resolving the spell. So Nick will show 4 cards to Anna, and she will choose which one to shuffle back into unknown portion of Nick's library. Be attentive to account for known cards in the library!
Nick will also receive a Warning.

If you are interested in philosophy behind this part of DEC, you can read this recent article by Toby Elliott (slightly reworded IPG text included): http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2015/10/14/tweaking-the-new-dec-rules/

Edited Maria Alex Chernov (Oct. 15, 2015 11:13:59 PM)