Soul Tithe

The trigger's controller is the NAP but it affects the AP. This one confuses me.

What I find in the IPG is it is NAP's responsibility to remember the trigger, but if he doesn't it negatively affects the opponent (who can still cry “Judge” and put it on the stack). The problem is: both the options to pay and not to pay are beneficial to the NAP in some way, making the preference very personal. So… Warning or not for the AP?

I'm confused, thanks for your help :>

The trigger is part of Soul Tithe, which I assume belongs to NAP. That
means it's NAP's responsibility to point it out, and not AP's.

AP would never get a warning here, since it is not his trigger.

Additionally, in situations like this where the one player controls the
trigger but the ability requires another player to make a choice, the one
player who controls the trigger cannot simply stay silent - he must remind
the other player that there is a choice to be made.

My mistake I wrote “So… Warning or not for the AP?” but what I was thinking was “So… Warning or not for the NAP?”

Let me explain my confusion.

If NAP forget the trigger and on post-combat main they see AP didn't pay the upkeep how do we fix it?

I can ask AP if he wants to put the trigger on the stack, he says “no” and we proceed without sacrificing the permanent? Or should I rollback the game to that point in time?

If caught during second main phase, its the APs choice to put it on the stack (which 99.99% of the time he won't)

We don't rewind for missed triggers like we do for GRVs, and we don't force the default option in this case because the choice is not made by the controller of the trigger.

This scenario will likely result in: no warning (not detrimental to triggers controller) no fix (AP doesn't want it to happen) play on!

Originally posted by Bryan Prillaman:

This scenario will likely result in: no warning (not detrimental to triggers controller) no fix (AP doesn't want it to happen) play on!

Thanks, you made it very clear :>

Note also that the AP can't rush past the point where that would trigger to try and force it to be missed - this is a good example of the phrase in the IPG: “Players may not cause triggered abilities controlled by an opponent to be missed by taking game actions or otherwise prematurely advancing the game.”

Originally posted by Andrea Mondani:

Soul Tithe
The problem is: both the options to pay and not to pay are beneficial to the NAP in some way, making the preference very personal.

Just wanted to reiterate that within the context of missed triggers “beneficial” is never used. Warnings are only given when a trigger is “usually considered detrimental”. At a glance the difference seems negligible, however when you start to apply it you see that “usually considered detrimental” eliminates a huge grey area of “not beneficial” triggers.

IF I am the NAP I don't have to say anything to the AP about this trigger until they draw there card, if they don't pay the upkeep then there creature would die yes or no. Its there trigger now and they forgot to pay. That's how these upkeep triggers used to work if you draw you missed the trigger.

As has been mentioned, the trigger is controlled by the NAP. It's their card that is generating the trigger after all.

As for historical upkeep triggers, I'm not sure if there are all that many controlled by the NAP which trigger on the AP's turn which are bad for the AP to forget. Typically such cards were worded like Magus of the Tabernacle, which granted an ability to the creature. In that case, sure, if the AP forgets their trigger then they suffer the consequences of the default action. But Soul Tithe is different. It's the NAP's trigger. And if they forget, then no harm no foul.

Ok understand yeah def odd with the NAP now. I knew with cumulative upkeep stuff or echo before if you drew your card you would lose your creature. Its a lot more confusing with these type of triggers now.