This thread is for discussing the article PPTQs: Head Judge Communication by Kyle Evans.

Thanks for this great summarizing article of the most important points. It will surely be useful for any less experienced guys.

I have one point though. If you guys ever write an article mentioning judge compensation, let the readers also know that any numbers presented in your article are based on your local customs and will probably differ dramatically in other parts of the world.

Originally posted by Kyle Evans:

For example, if I were to agree to HJ a PPTQ that expects 12-20 I might agree to work for 1 Box minimum with 1 pack per player to a maximum of 2 boxes.

-> This is unreal in my area.

Please don't compare American compensation with european…

And again, the topic of compensation differences between countries and personal judge preferences… :)

We talked about it before, we agreed no unique answer fits all of us, and judges are free to negotiate as they wish with the TO. The article simply shows a personal point of view of the issue.

Edited Joaquín Pérez (Nov. 24, 2015 09:06:00 AM)

The point is that it helps to state that explicitly in the article for readers who are not yet familiar with those differences.

Perhaps the floor judge part could also use some numbers for indication.

Store-level PPTQs are a great opportunity for judges to get Competitive REL experience and will run much more efficiently with more than just the Head Judge. Encourage the store to support a Floor Judge to work with you.

Is this true for that 12-20 player tournament?
(And again I'm not asking this to get a discussion here going on, just that mentioning it in the article would help inexperienced judges reading it half a year from now.)

Edited Toby Hazes (Nov. 24, 2015 11:43:43 AM)

Sealed events require the store to provide product and are going to take at least an hour longer, perhaps another two if you include a T8 draft.

Remember that Top 8 drafts are required for Sealed PPTQs, so your event is almost always going to be about two hours longer. It's worth keeping that in mind when considering compensation as well.

Originally posted by Toby Hazes:

Store-level PPTQs are a great opportunity for judges to get Competitive REL experience and will run much more efficiently with more than just the Head Judge. Encourage the store to support a Floor Judge to work with you.

Is this true for that 12-20 player tournament?

Yeah, this is also a concern I have about PPTQs in general vs. old school PTQs.

Obviously there is the occasional exception, but it has been my experience that most PPTQs only require the TO to bring on one judge. If the store is small and the PPTQ will be small, they just need the one L2 to make it official. If the store is a little larger and running a PPTQ big enough to need two judges, they still need to bring on an L2, but their assistant is the store's regular FNM judge. In neither case is a TO bringing on an L1 looking for competitive experience.

There are exceptions, but at least in my area it seems like there is a much, much smaller opportunity for a newish L1 to break into competitive judging because there aren't any 150 - 250 player tournaments for which having an L1 or two makes sense.

I've encouraged L2s in my region to make including an L1 a point in any of their PPTQs. This may not fly everywhere, but we've tried to emphasize it as a culture. I believe that the TO should invest in the future of the judge program for their stores, and the HJ should make it a point to negotiate a fair compensation for an extra judge, even if that splits some from them.

It helps to have an extra hand and it's a pristine opportunity, even at low turnout, for the L1 to be more hands-on and get Comp REL experience. There aren't many other opportunities for entry-level Comp REL events, and L2s should be training L1s. If it's an “FNM judge” or employee, certify them to be an L1. That's part of the importance of having L2s involved with stores for PPTQs.

Originally posted by Nathen Millbank:

There are exceptions, but at least in my area it seems like there is a much, much smaller opportunity for a newish L1 to break into competitive judging because there aren't any 150 - 250 player tournaments for which having an L1 or two makes sense.

I hope that 150 isn't where you're drawing the line of requesting help. Personally, I think 32 is pushing what I would handle on my own. I'm sure there are very capable L2s who handle more on their own, but I believe you're overworking yourself unnecessarily if you're doing this on your own.

Stumbled on this while doing some late night browsing of JudgeApps forums (clearly, I need to find a new hobby or three). Judge Compensation is obviously a touchy issue, but I'm glad to see it brought up. It's highly subjective to local areas, but it it still something to bring up so that at least a newer judge looking at running a PPTQ considers. Unfortunately, comp isn't quite as ‘transparent’ as it used to be since there are so many more events where it's just an L2 and an L1 (or L1 prospect) on the floor. That means more knowledge is just being passed from one judge to the next, ala the telephone game, rather than widely disseminated.

Also, per Evan's comment, I agree heartily on having someone on the floor with me. If I'm not leaving behind an L1 or a more experienced L1 at a shop, I consider the PPTQ a wasted opportunity. It's not the greatest training vehicle, but it beats nothing. While it may not have all of the large logistical complexities of a larger event, it does provide opportunities to train core skills. Some of the shops I help HJ their PPTQs I see just once a quarter and would like to build up the area to a point where every shop has at least an L1 in shop. Hopefully one of those L1s gets the itch to go L2 so that I don't have to work those shops anymore and can parcel out some of my obligations better.

Originally posted by Jeffrey Vandenberg:

Stumbled on this while doing some late night browsing of JudgeApps forums (clearly, I need to find a new hobby or three). Judge Compensation is obviously a touchy issue, but I'm glad to see it brought up. It's highly subjective to local areas, but it it still something to bring up so that at least a newer judge looking at running a PPTQ considers. Unfortunately, comp isn't quite as 'transparent' as it used to be since there are so many more events where it's just an L2 and an L1 (or L1 prospect) on the floor. That means more knowledge is just being passed from one judge to the next, ala the telephone game, rather than widely disseminated.

I think in regards to compensation the best thing a new(ish) L2 can do is try to find out what others in their area have been charging for head judging and look to match it. The established L2s should not have any issue being honest with you as they likely don't want another judge undercutting them. At the same time, it gives you an estimate as to what judges in your area have been getting paid recently.

One thing that we have done in our area might be useful here.

We have created a document whose target audience are new judges and TOs. Among other things, it contains information on “standard” compensation, recommended staffing based on attendance and judge/TO responsibilities (TOs never ever read MTR).

It may be worth it to build such a document together with other local judges and TOs.

Originally posted by Milan Majerčík:

One thing that we have done in our area might be useful here.

We have created a document whose target audience are new judges and TOs. Among other things, it contains information on “standard” compensation, recommended staffing based on attendance and judge/TO responsibilities (TOs never ever read MTR).

It may be worth it to build such a document together with other local judges and TOs.

I think it was edited from my original article but I know we (US-South) for a couple seasons had all the HJ's post data from our events, including numbers, prize support, compensation, etc.

It's kinda fallen off the past few seasons, as things have gotten a little standardized now. But it was a great tool for me when talking to stores about compensation. If they feel it's too much, I now have lots of data to show them.

If anyone is interested I still have the US-South PPTQ document. I can provide it to someone to post in google docs or something. I'm not internet savvy =(.