During a deck check at a Competitive REL Standard Constructed event you discover that a player (who is playing UR Prowess) has a fake Jace, Telepath Unbound in his sideboard. The ‘card’ is printed onto a piece of paper, cut out and then glued onto the front of a basic Forest card, furthermore being sleeved in a different sleeve to the rest of the deck. It is very obviously not an official Magic: the Gathering card.

The player is running four copies of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in their deck, and they are not using checklist cards.

Are you okay with this? How do you handle this situation?

Clarification:

There are 4 real copies of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in the deck. There is, additional to this, the ‘proxy’ card.

Edited Winter (March 21, 2016 05:48:12 AM)

Proxy are only issued by the judges and under the circumstances that the card has been damaged during play in the event. Therefore this is not a legal proxy. The card should be removed from the players deck and be replaced with a proper copy of the card or a basic land.

The player will receive a deck list penalty and a gl for this.

I would also investigate further for an explanation as why the player did this and dependant on the explanation could possibly Dq the player and report the matter to the dci.


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I misread what you write sorry for my mistake.

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So we have a player who has the night face of a DFC that is being played in their deck, it's obviously not real and is in sleeving that can not be mistaken? I'm guessing the reason the player gave for having it was so they could use it instead of flipping Jace?

I'm OK with allowing it if it's for that reason

So 4x copies of the real card are in the deck, and this ‘fake’ is essentially a token to overlay when it's flipped, so they don't have to take the card out of the sleeve?

So long as both players know what's going on, and they're not using it in place of a real card, and there's no ambiguity that it is a real card. I don't have an issue. It'd be better if it didn't involve anything with an MTG back–on top of an advertisement card or such.

Though if you're referring to it as a fake, that sounds ambiguous; DDLP away.

For anyone who is at least a bit familiar with current Standard legal sets (i.e. is not living under a rock) is obvious that the “card” is some kind of a token. There is no card named “Jace, Telepath Unbound” that would also have a Magic card back.

I see no way how this could fall under DDLP. The only concern that I may have on my mind is a possible intellectual property “infraction”. But that is not my expertise at all :-)

Originally posted by Sophie Hughes:

How do you handle this

First, I ask the player why that “card” is there. Most likely, his answer is “I use that instead of flipping Jace” - and I comment on his ingenuity, and move on.

d:^D

I would ask him to follow proper procedures for these things. I understand what they are doing, and while clever, is the opposite of what we want to promote. They either take the time to take the card out of the sleeve and flip it, or represent their cards with a checklist card and keep the jaces in their deckbox.

The only reason I have a problem is because there is the chance that they have misrepresented some part of Jace's flipped state (starts with 6 loyalty, he has a +2 instead of a +1) and they hope their opponent isnt familiar with the card. I know it seems far fetched and glass have empty, but it leaves the room for ambiguity and some level of possible abuse.

> The only reason I have a problem is because there is the chance that they
> have misrepresented some part of Jace's flipped state (starts with 6
> loyalty, he has a +2 instead of a +1) and they hope their opponent isnt
> familiar with the card. I know it seems far fetched and glass have empty,
> but it leaves the room for ambiguity and some level of possible abuse.

That sounds like both a low value cheat and a high risk one. Few
players in standard are going to not notice the edit and the second
they are caught in it they are going to have a really hard time not
getting disqualified.

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

Sophie Hughes
How do you handle this

First, I ask the player why that “card” is there. Most likely, his answer is “I use that instead of flipping Jace” - and I comment on his ingenuity, and move on.

d:^D

…at which point he resolves drawing his three cards. Nicely done.

I would do the same like what Scott Marshall had mentioned.

As long as it's in different sleeve, which is easily distinguishable from the main deck and side board sleeves, i'm fine with it because he had real copies of 4x Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy.

I guessing the reason for him to do that are probably either, he is lazy to flip it by taking it in and out or it's troublesome to include all 4 official check list cards and 4 real Jace, Vryn's prodigy.

Note that checklist cards are not readily available (and can NOT be proxied), so it's not unusual to be running the double-faced cards.

Also, flipping Jace each time runs the risk of damaging the sleeve - and now you've got Marked Cards.

d:^D

We had a situation at a Gpt recently. Opponent calls judge to table and says he can see the flip card through opponents sleeves. After checking we issued a marked cards penalty. Hj was considering proxing these I suggested he should not! Ruling was resleeve the deck or find checklist cards to replace Jace. We told the player if he could not do either of these Jace would have to be replaced with basic lands. Fortunately the player found some checklist cards as new sleeves were not available.

Graham

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Originally posted by David Poon:

…at which point he resolves drawing his three cards. Nicely done.

and what do you mean? Oo