Asha puts a Sleep Paralysis on Nolan's untapped Seagraf Skaab and says “go”.
Nolan untaps lands and draws a card. At this moment Asha taps the Skaab.
Nolan calls a judge because he believes the trigger was missed. Asha did not realize the ability was a trigger.

That most definitely sounds like a missed trigger to me. I don't see the player not realizing it was a trigger as being relevant here.

At Competitive REL, this is that kind of “gotcha” thing we sometimes encounter. And we must follow the IPG, so we side by Nolan. And the casual guy Asha leaves in disgust and never comes to any Competitive event in the future.

Originally posted by Milan Majerčík:

At Competitive REL, this is that kind of “gotcha” thing we sometimes encounter. And we must follow the IPG, so we side by Nolan. And the casual guy Asha leaves in disgust and never comes to any Competitive event in the future.

This is a whole different discussion, but that seems like a huge overreaction on Asha's part.

Also, I'm personally of the opinion that tight, precise play should be rewarded at competitive REL. If I was Nolan, I'd be pretty bummed if my opponent would be allowed to get their missed trigger. Understanding the rules and keeping track of ones own triggers are both part of what makes a Magic player good.

Originally posted by Milan Majerčík:

At Competitive REL, this is that kind of “gotcha” thing we sometimes encounter. And we must follow the IPG, so we side by Nolan. And the casual guy Asha leaves in disgust and never comes to any Competitive event in the future.

It's exactly where the education part of our works start.

Just saying «Sorry dude, you're opponent is right» is probably the worst answer to give.

Yes, sorry Toby for hijacking the thread. From IPG point of view we are quite clear here (i.e. the trigger has been missed).

I just wanted to point out the other side of that ruling. As Pascal has mentioned, we are Magic Judges. Besides the rules-wise correct ruling, we also need to bear in mind the way we deliver it. Especially in cases like these.

Hi all,

@Milan: I think it's a good idea to look at the customer service side
of a call and would really like it if you could elaborate on your
thoughts… What would you tell Asha? What would you tell Nolan?

Greets
jeremie

I read the situatión and Nolan don't even mentioned that he was going to draw. Actually the situation sounds like, “If I'm fastest enough to rush into draw for turn I'm going to miss her trigger, so lets go at maxium speed”

You can't miss oponents trigger on purpose as we have read in documents, or I'm making a mistake and forgetting something?

Reading is tech.

Saludos!

Edited Cristóbal Vigar Guerrero (May 2, 2016 04:37:02 PM)

Cristóbal, the trigger happened the moment Sleep Paralysis entered the battlefield; the “doesn't untap” part of the card is a replacement effect.
The trigger was missed the moment Asha said “Go”, passing priority to her end step without tapping the Skaab. This is not a situation of “rushing so she misses a trigger”, it's more like “she missed a trigger and want to put it on the stack as soon as she remembered it”, which configures a GPE-Missed Trigger.

Please note that Sleep Paralysis has an “enters the battlefield” trigger.
This was missed when Asha said “go”. This is different from Narcolepsy -
it is not an upkeep trigger. Reading cards is tech. :)

Card Name:
Sleep Paralysis
Mana Cost:
3U
Converted Mana Cost:
4
Types:
Enchantment — Aura
Card Text:
Enchant creature
When Sleep Paralysis enters the battlefield, tap enchanted creature.
Enchanted creature doesn't untap during its controller's untap step.


—
Rob McKenzie
Magic Judge Level III
Judge Regional Coordinator USA-North
Minnesota

Oh, I miss read the situation thinking that he untap his skaab during the untap step, don't even consider that last post.

Greets!

Originally posted by Jeremie Granat:

Hi all,

@Milan: I think it's a good idea to look at the customer service side
of a call and would really like it if you could elaborate on your
thoughts… What would you tell Asha? What would you tell Nolan?

Greets
jeremie

That is a good question and I am not sure I know the answer. I have one similar situation from the past, where I failed miserably in that matter, still bothering my mind.

I would probably try to say something like “Asha, as that ability is indeed a triggered one and there are special rules regarding those that allow them to be missed, it is a missed trigger unless Nolan lets you put it on the stack now” - a quick look at Nolan. “Asha, if you have time after the swiss part, we could sit down and a have a talk about the various types of abilities we have in Magic and how they are treated. So you are aware of it in the future.”

I would really appreciate your opinions.

Hi all :)

My two cents.

Regarding how to approach the delivery it really is a question of the
circumstances and individuals of every specific situation. Are they upset
or seemingly calm? Is it a regular or not? And so on…

With that in mind, I usually try and keep these things in mind:

1. Listen to the player and acknowledge what their saying.
A lot of the time, just feeling like you're heard makes a difference in a
ruling.

2. Gauge what information they might be lacking and explain that.
If you're aiming to educate at least. Assuming what they know or not can be
condescending or confusing, depending on.

3. Check up after delivering the ruling.
Stuff like: “did I manage to make sense?” or “do you have follow-up
questions?” shows you care about them.

This is not a thorough list but some of my basic tools for making sure
people feel good after a ruling :). Happy to hear feedback or elaboration
on it.
Den 3 maj 2016 14:02 skrev “Milan Majerčík” <

One thing that helps avoid these feel-bad situations is to make an announcement at the beginning of the event about how comp REL is more technical. It may not prevent the problem, but it at least makes the player less likely to get upset.

Yurick, I just wanted to mention that it's not a replacement effect. It's just a regular continuous effect that changes the rules of the game.

Originally posted by Rob McKenzie:

Please note that Sleep Paralysis has an “enters the battlefield” trigger.
This was missed when Asha said “go”.

Does “go” mean that she missed it though? The shortcut “go” is an offer to pass priority until the opponent has priority in the end step. I don't see why she can't make that offer with the trigger on the stack, offering to pass until the trigger is resolved and her main phase is over.

I'd have to ask a few more questions of Nolan and Asha to determine the exact sequence of events. If Asha confirmed Nolan's draw, or if Nolan pause at all during “untap, upkeep, draw,” then Asha allowed the game state to progress with the creature untapped and the trigger is missed. However, if Nolan untapped and drew immediately after Ashas said go, Ash's first action was to point out that the creature should be tapped, I'd let her have it. The IPG explicitly says “passing priority…doesn't mean a triggered ability has been forgotten, as it could still be on the stack,” so simply saying “go” doesn't prove to me that the trigger was missed.