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Competitive REL » Post: Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

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June 14, 2016 02:13:47 AM [Original Post]

Kevin Wellens
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Great Lakes

Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

In game one at a Competitive REL tournament, AP controls Helm of Obdience and Rest in Peace. AP activates Helm of Obdience and targets NAP. NAP obliges, and flips his entire library over into his exile.

AP asks to see NAP's exile zone. Realizing what is happening, NAP concedes the game and scoops up his cards, in order to keep his library secret. AP asks to see his deck. NAP refuses. Judge is called.

Is AP allowed to see …
In game one at a Competitive REL tournament, AP controls Helm of Obdience and Rest in Peace. AP activates Helm of Obdience and targets NAP. NAP obliges, and flips his entire library over into his exile.

AP asks to see NAP's exile zone. Realizing what is happening, NAP concedes the game and scoops up his cards, in order to keep his library secret. AP asks to see his deck. NAP refuses. Judge is called.

Is AP allowed to see the NAP's library when there was a point in the game where it was public information?


I'm trying to locate more information on the above scenario, but I have been unsuccessful, or might be looking in the wrong places. MTR doesn't detail what goes into conceding the game, and the Comprehensive Rules just confirm what is and isn't public information.

Thanks for any insight!

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June 14, 2016 11:36:55 AM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

I've said it before, it still applies:
The only thing faster than a concession, is the Elbow of Justice (i.e., a Judge assessing a penalty).

I could pick up the top card of my library, intending to reveal it for Dark Confidant; realize that you haven't seen this card yet, and it's CMC is enough to kill me; concede before revealing it. I could do the same for Counterbalance, or Courser of Kruphix. (Yes, this is contrary to what Dan said, above.)

d:^D

June 15, 2016 09:29:26 PM

Jonas Breindahl
Judge (Uncertified)

Europe - North

Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

Why be so mean? :p

(Yes, I'm serious.)

I understand that this is the opinion of the program leadership and will follow that opinion.

“Why be so mean? :P” does not help me understand the philosophy behind though.

June 15, 2016 11:34:44 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

There is nothing in the rules regarding concessions that require any incomplete game actions to be completed first. In fact, quite the opposite is true:
Originally posted by CR 101.1:

Whenever a card’s text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a).

d:^D

June 16, 2016 06:13:03 PM

Lyle Waldman
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

Originally posted by Jonas Breindahl:

Scott Marshall
Why be so mean? :p

(Yes, I'm serious.)

I understand that this is the opinion of the program leadership and will follow that opinion.

“Why be so mean? :P” does not help me understand the philosophy behind though.

I believe that the philosophy is that when CR says “A player may concede at any time”, CR actually means “any time”. Not “any time a player has priority”, or “any time the opponent allows you to”, actually /any time/. And, as it happens, the point at which you mill out your library and realize you're dead but before your opponent has had the chance to review the revealed cards, well, that's a time, and is hence “any time”, so you can concede then, pack up your stuff, and walk away (or proceed to the next game, as appropriate).

June 17, 2016 01:36:16 AM

Florian Horn
Judge (Level 5 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

France

Concession in Response to looking at a Milled Library

I agree that “the point at which you mill out your library and realize you're dead but before your opponent has had the chance to review the revealed cards” is “a time”, but I am not so convinced about “the time where I looked at the top card of my library for Dark Confident (or Counterbalance)”.

Oh, well. As Eli said, it's unlikely to come up.

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