If the event they are judging doesn't actually require a certified judge, do we care at all whether they say they are one? So if they are judging an FNM (which doesn't even need a judge at all) but are telling everybody they are a certified L2 judge, is that something that should be brought to the attention of the judge community, or do we just shake our head at the insecurity and carry on?

Talk to them
- Why do they claim to be L2?
- Why dont they just take the L1 test?
- Tell them it would be profit for anyone if they actually try to take the test..

Talk to the TO
- What does he think?
- Why doesn't he interfere?

Talk to your L2 (the real one ^^ )
- Tell him that happens
- Maybe get some contacts so they can talk to eachother (and then they take the L1 :p )

In that order :p

If I were a player at the store and knew this person is not really a L2 as he was claiming to be, I would have a chat with him to figure out why he is claiming that and request him to stop doing those claims. I will also offer him information so that he can start his L1 certification process.

I would also inform the TO of the facts (as he his the person who allowed that person to judge his FNM) so that he can take action on his side.

After all this, if the situation persists, I would consider escalating to a L2 or a WPN rep.

Personally, I feel it's a significant problem if someone is deliberately misrepresenting themselves as a certified judge when they are not. Any misconduct on their behalf would reflect negatively on the image of the judge program, and there is no reason to believe that the person is qualified. Simply put, the fact that an individual (allegedly) has chosen to misrepresent themselves as an actual Judge without going through any of the established processes to become certified (and portrayed themselves as a Level 2 judge, no less) tells me that this person is not going to have the qualities that we look for in a Judge Candidate (ie honesty, integrity, etc…)

Which is why I would have a chat with that person at first in order to figure out why he did that. It could be a case of bad judgement that could be fixed by some education.

That said, if the chat turned out that he would like to get certified, I would notify the L2 who would interview him for judge candidacy of this incident so that he could take it into account during his evaluation.

All the suggestions of how to get to good resolutions are great. If that
falls through (and probably before then for support) I'd contact my RC
about this type of issue.

I mean it's a violation of the JCoC. Players may not represent themselves as judges, nor may judges represent themselves as higher level judges. It should be reported to that player's RC.

Originally posted by Isaac King:

I mean it's a violation of the JCoC

AFAIK, the Judge Code only applies to, well, judges. Those players are not certified judges, so this does not apply.

However, it is an issue.

Daniel Ruffolo
but are telling everybody they are a certified L2 judge

You can be a certified L2, L3, L4 judge, but as long as you are not announced as such, you're a player at the event. Yes, we know about the casual playing-judging FNM, but I suspect that's not the case here :)

I'd talk seriously with the player. Probably he's just a kid trying to get over a discussion about rules, or trying to impress (¿?) a younger player, or whatever. But that behavior has to end, particularly because if he misbehaves (indeed, he's already misbehaving by stating a false judge level) the image of the Judge Program as a whole can be resented.

If he refuses to end that behavior, or probably in any case just to be safe, I'll contact my RC about the issue. If it gets serious, it can be escalated to the Investigations Commitee, which can impose a suspension to that fake-judge.

Edited Joaquín Pérez (June 26, 2016 06:41:41 PM)

Bringing this to the Investigations Committee is a bit far really. The simplest answer is to talk with them, show them you can actually check their judge level (or lack thereof), and that usually ends the problem. If it doesn't, it's pretty easy to make sure any store they go to knows they aren't actually a certified judge. This behavior is surprisingly common, and I'm guessing it stems from a misunderstanding of both how frequently judges communicate with each other, as well as how relatively simple it is to check someone's level.

Originally posted by Joaquín Pérez:

AFAIK, the Judge Code only applies to, Well, judges. Those players are not certified judges, so this does not apply.

That would make sense, but the following section of the JCoC makes me think otherwise:

Impersonating a judge

This may occur when someone represents themself as a certified Magic judge in
order to gain a benefit or to avoid a possible penalty. Someone who lies about being
a certified judge may lack the appropriate qualities of honesty and trustworthiness to
be a judge.

Examples:

• A player erroneously believes they are a judge, either through
  misunderstanding the result of an administered exam or a Rules Advisor
  exam.
  
• A player claims to be a judge in order to satisfy the sanctioning or reporting
  requirements of an event, or to gain employment or trust in the community.

Edited Isaac King (June 27, 2016 08:10:32 AM)

This section of the Code needs to be updated anyway with the obsolescence
of the rules advisor exam. We've been discussing this thread within the
JCC.

Here's the common understanding in that group at the moment, which we'll
work into the next scheduled revision of the Code (with cleaned up
language, not so “conversational” as I've laid it out below, but this
should give you some idea of where this section is headed):

There isn't much we (the JCC) can do about non-judges who pretend to be
L1+, except inform the RC so they can have a chat. In some cases it may be
appropriate to block them from future certification, in others we just put
them on the path towards certification.

If they're a judge representing the wrong level, then it depends on what
they're doing with it. If they're a L1 judging PPTQs while claiming to be a
L2+ (which we've had happen), we take that more seriously than simply
making a bogus claim to bolster your image (which is also a bad thing to
do, but not “we really need to consider whether you can be trusted at all”
bad).

It could easily be a misunderstanding
- not realising that judge certifications expire - maybe they were a Level 2 many many years ago.
- thinking a TO level program from a few years ago is the same as a judge level - I have heard of TOs being a Level 2 TO, I think this was prior to store levels being names like advanced level.

Have a chat with them, be friendly, don't accuse them of pretending to be a judge, just ask them about judging. Try to be as non-confrontational as possible. You could be the one that is mistaken not them. I know if someone came up to me demanding to know things about how I claimed to be a judge I'd most likely start off very defensive and not want to continue the discussion.

I've had a couple players locally who have been accused of claiming to be L2, in order to give more weight to their version of how things should work in their game. Unfortunately, I've not had a chance to catch them, nor have another reliable judge catch them - it's all hearsay. Fortunately, one of them - the most toxic member of our player community - has vanished.

If something like that is happening, by all means, report them to Wizards' fraud team, or to your RC. As Sean noted above, the JCC can't really exert its authority for non-judges.

d:^D

That IS the ‘O’ficcial recommended course of action then? As, I have recently ran into a couple of players trying to strong-arm one of my TOs because they are “judges” but as far as I can tell they are not. Not according to the Judge Center, not according to Judge Apps, only their word that they are.

And they are actually being belligerent about it, from what I am being told. So, if this is the ‘O’ course of action - I'll take it.

(thanks for bringing this up, btw)