A spectator is sitting next to his girlfriend after time has been called. Said girlfriend is playing vs a kid, the players are in the 2nd or 3rd extra turn. She passes the turn and the Floor Judge standing nearby hears the spectator say something like “If you attack you just win don't you?”.

I thought this to be covered by the jar as a section between common issues and serious problems but it isn't. While consulting with the head judge after reading the jar again and again we decided to have a serious talk with the spectator in private and “let him get away” with a warning.

Should you issue match loss for outside assistance especially at a prerelease?

What you did is exactly what I would do, and I think most judges would agree. The JAR doesn't allow for a Match Loss for something like this. It is listed under General Unwanted Behaviours though, so there is the option to Game Loss if the person repeats it despite your warning chat.

I'll just add an ‘O’fficial agreement to what Mark said. The IPG can help us figure out if something is undesirable, but please don't mix the IPG with the JAR, at either REL.

d:^D

I would have a word will the person involved and would emphasis that this sort of behaviour is unwanted and that at competive events would be dealt with more harshly.


Sent from my iPhone

Also, because I have trouble to understand if you meant a “warning” as in the English word or as the IPG penalty, be aware that we only deliver a Warning penalty in Competitive and Professional REL. Regular REL is less formal on that matter, and we don't record a penalty for players that we educate.

- Emilien

Something that's stuck with me through my teachings about Regular REL:

The only things given out at Regular REL are Hugs and DQs.

Originally posted by Russell Deutsch:

Something that's stuck with me through my teachings about Regular REL:

The only things given out at Regular REL are Hugs and DQs.

I quite like this, though it is important to remember that we do sometimes have game losses at Regular:

1). “It can be useful to reinforce this education with more stern penalties such as a Game Loss should the unwanted behavior continue.

2). ”If they make no attempt to correct their behavior, applying a Game Loss may reinforce the seriousness of the issue.“

Both of these are single lines take out of the ”General Unwanted Behavior" section. For the most part your line is correct, and I do think I'll steal it, but with this caveat. :)

Originally posted by Russell Deutsch:

Something that's stuck with me through my teachings about Regular REL:

The only things given out at Regular REL are Hugs and DQs.

I cannot tell if you think that's a “bad idea” or “an unfortunate circumstance”.

Or, if you're just saying that's the summary and it's useful to have a summary?

I may be reacting to the way in which things like “Hugs not drugs” or the like
is used as a way to characterize something as “emotional”, “whimpy”, ie think
the conversation around “Trigger warnings” and/or “Safe Spaces”.

It's a summary of the penalties at RREL. A mnemonic, even. You're reading a
LOT into it.

The context here is a question on policy (and match losses at RREL), with a bunch of answers and
explanations (including this one, pointing out the typical penalties at RREL). This thread did not contain a discussion
on the merits of the policy, where, with a reference to some previous
commentary, this would be a pointed comment making light of it. Similarly,
I don't think ironic use of the anti-drug slogan “Hugs not drugs” is at all
close to the conversation around those topics, but that's off-topic. =)

2016-08-31 13:40 GMT-04:00 Mark Mason <forum-28694-a788@apps.magicjudges.org

Edited Dominik Chłobowski (Aug. 31, 2016 09:47:35 PM)

I'd add that the goal of the conversation with the offending player is educating, not scolding. At Regular, especially at a Prerelease, there's good odds that the player has no idea they did anything that isn't OK. They may be coming from a different, much more casual store or the kitchen table, and/or have never played a tournament before. If they've only played at the kitchen table before, where tabletalk about the best play was common, giving them a harsh dressing down could push them away from tournament magic forever.

Instead, I'd try to focus on explaining why they aren't allowed to give advice in tournaments, even ones at regular REL, and letting them know that it can be a game loss if it happens again, and it can be a match loss if they did the same at comp REL.