Definition
A deck is not shuffled if the judge believes a player could know the position or distribution of one or more cards in his or her deck.
Philosophy
Any time cards in a deck could be seen, including during shuffling, it is no longer shuffled, even if the player only knows the position of one or two cards. Players are expected to take care in shuffling not to reveal cards to themselves, their teammates, or their opponents.
C. A player sees the bottom card of her deck when presenting it to her opponent for
cutting/shuffling
Edited Riki Hayashi (Oct. 12, 2016 09:46:56 AM)
Originally posted by Riki Hayashi:I'm not sure I agree with this. By policy, if you're looking at the bottom card of the deck, the deck is not randomized even if you're shuffling the top 59. Don't all the old arguments against pile “shuffling”* apply here as well?
There are legitimate reasons to shuffle with the card faces towards you. Off the top of my head:
* because the player isn't confident that they can riffle without letting their opponent see the bottom card.
* because they plan on following with face down riffles and they are trying to pre-bend the cards in the other direction so they stay flatter.
The key is to make sure that they shuffle sufficiently after they finish the face-up riffles and that they don't take too much time in the entire shuffling procedure.
Originally posted by Eli Meyer:Riki HayashiI'm not sure I agree with this. By policy, if you're looking at the bottom card of the deck, the deck is not randomized even if you're shuffling the top 59. Don't all the old arguments against pile “shuffling”* apply here as well?
There are legitimate reasons to shuffle with the card faces towards you. Off the top of my head:
* because the player isn't confident that they can riffle without letting their opponent see the bottom card.
* because they plan on following with face down riffles and they are trying to pre-bend the cards in the other direction so they stay flatter.
The key is to make sure that they shuffle sufficiently after they finish the face-up riffles and that they don't take too much time in the entire shuffling procedure.
*(either you're shuffling enough that to erase the effect of the pile, in which case it's a waste of time; or, you're not shuffling enough to erase the pile, in which case you're not properly randomizing)
Originally posted by Brian Schenck:It may not be _cheating_, but I don't think it's _reasonable_. Educate these players about how to shuffle without either playing being able to see them.
While I would not put words into Riki's mouth, I would offer that “shuffling with the card faces towards you” is not necessarily the same as “looking at the bottom card of the deck”. If the player is attempting to shuffle their deck without showing the card faces to the opponent, and making the effort to avoid seeing any cards in their deck while they shuffle, then that may be reasonable.
Originally posted by Matthew Johnson:
It may not be _cheating_, but I don't think it's _reasonable_. Educate these players about how to shuffle without either playing being able to see them.
Originally posted by Brian Schenck:Matthew Johnson
It may not be _cheating_, but I don't think it's _reasonable_. Educate these players about how to shuffle without either playing being able to see them.
Matthew, I don't see how we're disagree. Quite completely, I agree that the player should be shuffling in a way that neither they nor their opponent should be able to observe the faces of the cards in the player's deck. If the player takes appropriate measures to ensure that they can't observe the faces of the cards in their deck while shuffling, which is what I said, how is that unreasonable?
Or is there some specific comment to which you are taking issue?
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