Joshua, so why picking straight 6 is not a dexterity error while picking 4+2 is? Would you consider picking 2+4 dexterity error as well? Especially since recent knowledge pool scenario show us that L@EC apply only to library and here we are, applying it to set of 2 cards created while resolving Stirrings.
Sorry for digging it up, but it really create paradox-like feeling for me.

Edited Bartłomiej Wieszok (Feb. 20, 2017 12:49:19 PM)

Please correct me if I'm wrong there:

Are those two cards stuck together even part of the set created by the stirrings in the first place ?

By using IPG 1.5 :
Cards are considered to be part of a set until they join another set. There is no in-between state.

Those two cards are in the process of reaching another set, but they should not be considered as a set by themselves.

Therefore, my understanding is that since those two stuck cards are still considered as part of the library set until they actually reach the new set created by the resolution of stirrings spell (in this case, they haven't reached it yet), HCE is not an option and LEC is the right infraction (and fix) to apply.

Edited David Lachance-Poitras (Feb. 20, 2017 02:58:10 PM)

The major difference here is that the 5th and 6th cards (stuck together) remained separate from the others she picked up, so it falls squarely into L@EC.

Thanks to the recent changes to the IPG, it's much easier for me to remember the difference between L@EC and HCE. We have to think in terms of “sets” of cards to determine whether it's a simple L@EC (such as a dexterity issue) or HCE (actually drawing the card).

If the player had put the 5th and 6th cards into the set of 1st-4th cards, that would be HCE. This would actually match an example from the IPG for HCE:

B. A player scries two cards when he should only have scried one.

BTW, this is my first post to Knowledge Pool, and I only recently became an L1 (last Saturday!) but I've been learning and studying for almost a year before this. I'd love to see some more questions here so I can keep practicing Competitive REL.

David: you are mixing sets and zones. A set is any group of cards that for some reason can bee singled out. For most cases that means holding X cards in this hand and y in that (z being the rest of the library).

It could also bee that you have made 2 face down piles of your hand. Drawing 1 to many cards and putting it in one of the piles lets us work on that pile alone for the HCE fix.


For the scenario you have 4 distinct cards in one hand, making this a legal set. In the other you have 2 distinct cards, making this a set with problems.
They are distinct since they can bee singled out from the rest of the cards, they are in a different place.

Edited Jakob Lernhage (Feb. 21, 2017 10:35:05 AM)