This is a hypothetical alteration that i would love to do to my legacy deck, but i'm not sure which variations of this would be considered legal by future Legacy GP Head Judges.

I want an old-border Ad Nauseum (and infernal tutor and ponder and past in flames and whatnot).

1. can i take a regular Ad Nauseum, and paint the black background that's around the text box to look like the old background as seen on my Tendrils of Agony (I imagine this should be a yes)

2. can i take an Ad Nauseum, paint over the name, text box, everything that is not the art, such that it resembles the old card frame like my Tendrils of Agony, and then very carefully write the name, mana cost, rules text, and artist credit back on the card, exactly as it was already printed (or oracle text if that's better, though that should be the same for most of the newer cards)

3. can i do the same as 2, but printing the text back on rather than writing

4. reverse direction. can i take an Annihilation (or similar 3BB instant with an old frame), paint over and replace the text with the text of Ad Nauseum, and paint Ad Nauseum's art over Annihilation's art

5. can i do the same as 4, but cut the artwork out of the front of the Annihilation, and replace it with the literal art from the front half of an Ad Nausum (feels too much like Rebacking, i feel that this shouldn't be allowed)




Bonus question: I have a friend that wants his modern Faeries deck entirely nonfoil Russian. unfortunately, Engineered Explosives and Sword of Light and Shadow don't exist in Russian. Could he have the name and text translated (ideally by a Russian-speaking player or judge), and then written / printed on to a blanked out but legitimate copy of the card

From the Magic Tournament Rules, section 3.3 on Authorized Cards:

Artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, provided that the modifications do not make the card art unrecognizable, contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images. Artistic modifications also may not obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card.

The last line there is important. You cannot mess with the name or the mana cost of the card. So 1 is probably fine, and the rest are not ok (but, as with all alters, you should get them approved by the head judge before you play them in a tournament). 4 and 5 are especially bad, because now you're misrepresenting what the card is (by changing it to a completely different card), and since cards are recognized largely by their art, changing the art into the art of a different Magic card is also a big no-no.

Nathan Long

Edited Nathan Long (Sept. 19, 2017 09:38:38 PM)

Artistic alterations are always up to the judge in question- you can't get a definitive answer. Check out the MTR to see what the guidelines are. That said, here are my estimates as to how likely you are to get the alter in question approved:


1. 98%.

2. 35%.

3. 35%.

4. 0%. That is called a fake card. Do not do that.

5. Still no.

Bonus question: 5%

Hey Isaac,

While I appreciate that you're trying to help, just giving numbers without explaining the thought process and backing it up with our policies isn't the way we're handling alterations. I'm actually more confused than helped by your message, and I think I have a good handling on our philosophy.

Nathan correctly explained which policy HJ should use to take a decision and how it applies to this specific example, and I don't see much to add to his answer.

- Emilien

The altered card policy is in my opinion kinda outdated. Does the card name in any way matter/help you if its a korean/chinese card?
In my opinion it should just be updated that things like mana costs, P/T/loyalty box cant be changed/obstructed and the modifications do not make the card art unrecognizable, contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images.

Our policy looks for more goals than just making sure the cards aren't overly confusing. It is also (but not only) here to ensure that the cards played are genuine Magic cards, and played as the one they have been printed.
As the name is the thing a card is defined by, allowing any kind of modification here defeat that goal.

- Emilien

In addition to what Emilien has said: the rule for keeping the name is in line with existing communication policy - the name of a card is free information. The requirement to keep mana cost helps the opponent to quickly verify the legality of casting the card without getting judge involved or memorizing the entire format card pool.
With the mana cost being an exception, the rest can be actually altered as it is derived info per MTR.

And yes, any kind of tinkering to make one card look like another qualifies as either illegal alteration or counterfeit production, please don't do that.

Why do we have to be the copyright police? That's not our job.

What's the use of free information if I can't read whats written on the card?

Also because of varying printing quality issues its not that easy to be 100% sure a card isnt a counterfeit.

It's our job to be counterfeit police because of the MTR. We signed up to
be arbiters and enforcers of the tournament rules. That's in the job
description.

MTR 3.3 defines Authorized Cards:
https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr3-3/

That's literally directly within our remit as judges, enforcing the MTR and
making sure people used authorized cards in events.


—
Rob McKenzie
Magic Judge Level III
Judge Regional Coordinator USA-North
Minnesota

If we would be the copyright police we have to confiscate the cards, not just say “you can't play with that”. Also there are other (and better) ways to identify a card as genuine as the card name.

Oh, and if the policy is there to prevent playing with counterfeits, that the free information is visible to everyone, why did get a Karakas allowed that got fully altered, no text at all? At a GP, more than once.

Edited Johannes Wagner (Sept. 20, 2017 06:28:49 AM)

Originally posted by Johannes Wagner:

If we would be the copyright police we have to confiscate the cards, not just say “you can't play with that”.

There's a HUGE distance between “you can't use that card in this private event” and “I'm going to take your personal property off you”. Judges operate in the first category. Law enforcement agencies operate in the second.

Originally posted by Johannes Wagner:

If we would be the copyright police we have to confiscate the cards

This is completely false, Johannes. If we (as judges) identify a suspected counterfeit, we encourage the player to send it to Wizards with information about its source, to assist them in their quest to eliminate counterfeits. If you believe the player created the fake, report that - but we still don't confiscate their property.

At a Legacy GP, we had numerous occurrences of counterfeit cards; we also had representatives of Wizards on site, and many fakes were confiscated. But please don't extend that as precedent to empower you to confiscate!

* * *

I don't think this thread is heading in a helpful, informative direction, so I'm closing it.

d:^D