Adam, Carlos, Scott, et al.

Sorry to perpetuate the tangential course of this discussion…

How in these cultures, the ones you (Adam) claim that say “OK” to mean “I understand what you're doing, I will respond soon,” then indicate that they do not want to respond? Do they so “OK” again? Or something else?

What do they say when they want to mean “I have no response to that and will give priority back to you.” Do they typically say something other than “OK?” Have any of you observed a distinct difference between the “I have no responses, it resolves” action/verbalization and the “I see what you're doing there, give me a sec to think about it” ‘OK’ that these players claim to make when you are investigating them?

Originally posted by Jason Ness:

Adam, Carlos, Scott, et al.

Sorry to perpetuate the tangential course of this discussion…

How in these cultures, the ones you (Adam) claim that say “OK” to mean “I understand what you're doing, I will respond soon,” then indicate that they do not want to respond? Do they so “OK” again? Or something else?

I can not talk about other cultures, but I have used “Ok” to mean exactly what Carlos and Adam described: “I understand that you want to play XYZ, let's see what I can do about this.” This is usually not a problem, since I pronounce that kind of “Ok” slightly differently from an “Ok” meaning that something resolves. Players of a similar culture normally understand this nuace, but I don't expect players of other cultures to do so. Language is a tricky thing.

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Jason Ness <
forum-4740-7c2f@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> Adam, Carlos, Scott, et al.
>
> Sorry to perpetuate the tangential course of this discussion…
>
> How in these cultures, the ones you (Adam) claim that say “OK” to mean “I
> understand what you're doing, I will respond soon,” then indicate that they
> do not want to respond? Do they so “OK” again? Or something else?
>

In my experience, they will do one of about 3 things to indicate that
something resolves:

* say “OK” a second time (or, occasionally, “Sure”)
* Give a sharp nod in the affirmative
* Give a hand gesture similar to what you would see with “Go”

What do they say when they want to mean “I have no response to that and
> will give priority back to you.” Do they typically say something other than
> “OK?” Have any of you observed a distinct difference between the “I have no
> responses, it resolves” action/verbalization and the “I see what you're
> doing there, give me a sec to think about it” ‘OK’ that these players claim
> to make when you are investigating them?
>

What I have seen is that, generally, the speed of the response is key; if
something is going to resolve, they are often quick to say “OK” and likely
nod as well. If they are a bit slower, or do not nod, then they are likely
still considering and are simply acknowledging their opponent's action.

I will acknowledge that this has been a challenge. This differentiation is
very small, and is very easy for an opponent to overlook because they are
focused on board state, their cards, their plans.

I'm certainly open to others' observations!

–David

–
Ab ovo usque ad mala. – Horace

Come to think of it, I've often said things like “well, okay then … in response…” or “OK … I'm going to …”; then again, I'm hardly the typical NA player. :)

David's observations are consistent with what I've seen. I can picture a certain well-known player saying “OK”, looking at his hand, then his lands, and then finally responding; sometimes that response is the sharp nod and hand gesture David described, sometimes it's some sort of response.

Of course, it often leads to misunderstandings; I've handled a few appeals, with two players that barely share English, and no other languages, and some variation of the above. Usually, the more experienced international players know that “OK” doesn't mean “it resolves”. And the less experienced players are rarely happy with this particular spot on their learning curve!

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

There have been a number of instances, at Grand Prix and Pro Tours, where a Japanese player said “OK” and meant “I understand what you're doing, I will respond soon”. It's true that many European and North American players use “OK” to mean “that resolves” or “no response” - but, as Carlos and Adam have pointed out (from first-hand experience), that's not global.

As native Japanese, I can say this is pretty true.
At least in Japanese tournament, “OK” doesn't mean “OK it resolves” in my ruling. (Unless he did some specific actions which indicate it resolves.)

About Falkenrath Noble and Falkenrath Aristocrat, official card name errata is know by most players (especially most players who play at GPT). Even when ファルケンラースの貴族 is shown in decklist, I usually accept it as Falkenrath Aristocrat, but I'll check his game at some time in the tournament. If they use Falkenrath Aristocrat, no penalty at all.

Even I have the weird habbit of saying “ok” when I see a card being put on the stack (to which I acknowlegde more than I'm okay with the card being played with the specific parameters if any), I follow it up with “resolves” or “comes into play”, when I'm done thinking about it. Or an F6: “ok, resolves”

I have had judge calls about it, two, in both cases the judge understood I was more saying ok, I acknowledge what you mean.

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 10:34 PM, David Hibbs <
forum-4740-8651@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Jason Ness <
> forum-4740-7c2f@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:
>
> > Adam, Carlos, Scott, et al.
> >
> > Sorry to perpetuate the tangential course of this discussion…
> >
> > How in these cultures, the ones you (Adam) claim that say “OK” to mean “I
> > understand what you're doing, I will respond soon,” then indicate that
> they
> > do not want to respond? Do they so “OK” again? Or something else?
> >
>
> In my experience, they will do one of about 3 things to indicate that
> something resolves:
>
> * say “OK” a second time (or, occasionally, “Sure”)
> * Give a sharp nod in the affirmative
> * Give a hand gesture similar to what you would see with “Go”


The last one is what I've seen used the most.