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Competitive REL » Post: Is this PCV???

Is this PCV???

Sept. 4, 2017 03:09:54 PM [Original Post]

Gediminas Usevičius
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

Europe - North

Is this PCV???

Alie casts Gilded Cerodon and says your ‘Can’t block' while tapping Neon's Hollow One. Then Alie attacks with few creatures, Neon does not block and goes to 1. In the 2nd main phase Alie casts a creature and ends turn, after which Neon untaps and draws a card at which point Alie calls you to the table and explains that he thought that Gilded Ceredon had an ETB and not attack trigger. After investigating, you rule out cheating and believe …
Alie casts Gilded Cerodon and says your ‘Can’t block' while tapping Neon's Hollow One. Then Alie attacks with few creatures, Neon does not block and goes to 1. In the 2nd main phase Alie casts a creature and ends turn, after which Neon untaps and draws a card at which point Alie calls you to the table and explains that he thought that Gilded Ceredon had an ETB and not attack trigger. After investigating, you rule out cheating and believe that Neon did not want to be rude and reread the card.
What do you do? Do you count it as a bluff? A PCV?

Edit: tweaked tags for card names

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Edited Scott Marshall (Sept. 5, 2017 11:44:30 AM)

Sept. 6, 2017 07:44:56 AM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Is this PCV???

I missed that the Cerodon wasn't attacking (no Haste, Scott!), which changes this a bit.
Originally posted by IPG 3.7:

Players may not represent derived or free information incorrectly.
The Cerodon's ability is part of Oracle text, which is implied by the card, and is considered Derived info:
Originally posted by MTR 4.1:

Game Rules, Tournament Policy, Oracle content and any other official information pertaining to the current tournament. Cards are considered to have their Oracle text printed …
I missed that the Cerodon wasn't attacking (no Haste, Scott!), which changes this a bit.
Originally posted by IPG 3.7:

Players may not represent derived or free information incorrectly.
The Cerodon's ability is part of Oracle text, which is implied by the card, and is considered Derived info:
Originally posted by MTR 4.1:

Game Rules, Tournament Policy, Oracle content and any other official information pertaining to the current tournament. Cards are considered to have their Oracle text printed on them.
If the Cerodon were also attacking - as I first read it - this could be a simple GRV, and no harm done.
In this case, however, I'm calling it the rare & reclusive CPV, and that means considering a rewind to where things went wrong - i.e., when Noel acts on the “can't block” misstatement. Alie also acted on that, but:
Originally posted by IPG:

A backup may be considered in cases where a player has clearly acted upon incorrect information provided to him or her by his or her opponent. The backup should be to the point of the action, not the erroneous communication.
Alie acted on his own error, Noel acted on his opponent's error.

d:^D

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Edited Scott Marshall (Sept. 6, 2017 07:45:41 AM)

Nov. 13, 2018 08:52:13 AM

Arman Gabbasov
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Russia and Russian-speaking countries

Is this PCV???

I would like to up this thread because I don't have a clear understanding of where a delineation between CPV and GRV lies. I have several scenarios all of which I assume to be GRVs but since they involve both players writing down incorrect life totals it could be read as a CPV since life total is status info and this would be incorrectly representing status info. In these no player is cheating, assume they are just not paying attention/had a brainfart or something.

1) AP attacks with two 2/2 bears. NAP: ‘No blocks. Take 3?’ AP: ‘OK, you’re at 17.'
2) AP attacks with Crackling Drake and has 1 instant in their graveyard and 1 instant in exile. AP: ‘Take 1’ NAP: OK, take 1.' SPEC: ‘No, it’s 2, it counts cards in exile too.' AP and NAP after checking what the card does: ‘Yes, thank you. Take 2.’
3) AP casts a Shock targeting NAP and says ‘ Shock. Take 3.’ NAP at 20 life writes down 17 life. When a judge intervenes they both admit that they were thinking about Lightning Strike for some reason.
4) AP reveals Status//Statue to Dark Confidant's trigger and writes down that they lose 1 life. A judge intervenes and AP explains that they thought they have to choose one of the two answers so they chose the lesser one.
5) AP reveals Status//Statue to Dark Confidant's trigger and writes down that they lose 6 life. When a judge intervenes they explain that they miscalculated CMC (4+1=6).
6) AP reveals Status//Statue to Dark Confidant's Trigger but forgets to lose life.

I don't think scenarios 4 and 6 can be conceived as a CPV under any circumstances but I am open to all ideas.

Edited Arman Gabbasov (Nov. 13, 2018 08:54:12 AM)

Nov. 13, 2018 09:42:33 AM

Isaac King
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Foundry))

Barriere, British Columbia, Canada

Is this PCV???

Arman, this thread is over a year old. The definition of CPV has changed since it was started.

I'd suggest checking out the entry for CPV in the annotated IPG: https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/ipg3-7/

Nov. 13, 2018 10:06:43 AM

Jeff S Higgins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Pacific Northwest

Is this PCV???

Locked this thread due to necro status to avoid confusion.