Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Competitive REL » Post: Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

May 10, 2019 11:20:04 AM [Original Post]

Hiroshi Makita
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

Japan

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

AP activates Ugin, the Ineffable 's +1 ability, then NAP accidentally flips exiled card.
Is this GRV or LEC?

IMO, this is GRV before April … what now?

May 10, 2019 02:51:00 PM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Bryan Prillaman
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Southeast

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

L@EC recently had it called out that L@EC occurred from a deck. This was added to clarify that seeing the facedown card from bomat Courier was not L@EC and should not have its fix applied, but as a result made L@EC no longer apply to seeing opponents sideboard.

The most recent update removed “from a deck”. Looking at Toby’s blog, this was presumably made to extend L@EC back to opponents sideboard. But a (presumably) unintended consequence was losing the “bomat Courier fix” to the infraction.

-bryan

Edit: this was an unintended consequence, as Bryan speculated, and the Policy team will look at addressing this oversight in a future update.

Edited Scott Marshall (May 12, 2019 04:43:52 PM)

May 10, 2019 02:17:30 PM

Daniel Lee
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Pacific West

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

I would always call this LEC. What makes you think this would have been GRV?

May 10, 2019 02:51:00 PM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Bryan Prillaman
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Southeast

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

L@EC recently had it called out that L@EC occurred from a deck. This was added to clarify that seeing the facedown card from bomat Courier was not L@EC and should not have its fix applied, but as a result made L@EC no longer apply to seeing opponents sideboard.

The most recent update removed “from a deck”. Looking at Toby’s blog, this was presumably made to extend L@EC back to opponents sideboard. But a (presumably) unintended consequence was losing the “bomat Courier fix” to the infraction.

-bryan

Edit: this was an unintended consequence, as Bryan speculated, and the Policy team will look at addressing this oversight in a future update.

Edited Scott Marshall (May 12, 2019 04:43:52 PM)

May 10, 2019 06:33:39 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

I'm curious - how does NAP “accidentally” flip a card that AP exiled face down? Why are they handling that card at all?!

d:^D

May 10, 2019 06:45:25 PM

Eli Meyer
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Northeast

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

I'm curious - how does NAP “accidentally” flip a card that AP exiled face down? Why are they handling that card at all?!

d:^D
In many cases, players use the face-down card as the token, rather than using a token linked to a card in exile. (This does violate the MTR, but it is not an IPG infraction.) A card could get flipped while a player is arranging or ordering blockers, for instance.

May 15, 2019 09:25:08 AM

Hiroshi Makita
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

Japan

Ugin, the Ineffable -- GRV or LEC?

how does NAP “accidentally” flip a card that AP exiled face down?

Yes, Eli says that — opponent accidentally flips when he thinks order of block.

Thank you so much.

You must be registered in order to post to this forum.