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Tournament Operations » Post: No draws in Swiss rounds

No draws in Swiss rounds

May 10, 2019 10:13:48 PM [Original Post]

Cayce Lauder
Judge (Level 2 (UK Magic Officials))

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

No draws in Swiss rounds

If a TO wanted to run Swiss rounds using the “highest life total wins” rule from MTR2.5 to avoid draws during the Swiss rounds, would this be sanctionable? Or can this rule only be used during single/double elimination portions?

May 11, 2019 07:41:38 AM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

No draws in Swiss rounds

Basically, if you're running a sanctioned event, the MTR applies; if you're running a casual event, you can try other ideas (and maybe learn that they're good or bad!). Something like this (no draws) may be fine in a special (casual!) sanctioned event, but obviously we can't deviate like that for, say, an MCQ.

Now that I've got the ‘O’fficial noise out of the way, others can chime in with their comments and ideas. :)

d:^D

May 11, 2019 03:45:23 AM

Eli Meyer
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Northeast

No draws in Swiss rounds

Can you tell me what they’re hoping to accomplish with this structure?

I can’t comment on sanctioning requirements, but I might be able to offer some alternatives that can accomplish the TO’s goal without being so disruptive.

May 11, 2019 05:41:29 AM

Cayce Lauder
Judge (Level 2 (UK Magic Officials))

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

No draws in Swiss rounds

A six round draft event for 64 players (two drafts) that guarantees a single player on 6-0 at the end but allows all 64 players to play all six rounds.

May 11, 2019 05:43:44 AM

Hary
Judge (Level 2 (UK Magic Officials)), Scorekeeper

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

No draws in Swiss rounds

Sanctioning requirements are a bit iffy*, I believe they cannot choose to apply the ‘sudden death’ rule to anything other than timed single elimination. WER and the tournament rules are built around allowing games and matches to be drawn.
*Probably best to contact WPN about what strictly defines a sanctioned tournament, that's their call.

What does this TO do if players draw a game naturally through simultaneously dying or an unbreakable loop? If prizes are concerned, many TOs just count draws as losses when factoring prizes.

If intentional draws for splits are concerned, that's just how it works unfortunately, players might just intentionally play to time to achieve a draw otherwise and make the experience worse for everyone.

Edited Hary (May 12, 2019 07:31:05 AM)

May 11, 2019 07:41:38 AM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

No draws in Swiss rounds

Basically, if you're running a sanctioned event, the MTR applies; if you're running a casual event, you can try other ideas (and maybe learn that they're good or bad!). Something like this (no draws) may be fine in a special (casual!) sanctioned event, but obviously we can't deviate like that for, say, an MCQ.

Now that I've got the ‘O’fficial noise out of the way, others can chime in with their comments and ideas. :)

d:^D

May 13, 2019 09:53:39 AM

Mark Brown
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 2 (Oceanic Judge Association)), Scorekeeper

Australia and New Zealand

No draws in Swiss rounds

There is unlikely anything stopping an event being run as double or triple elimination, just requires making sure it's advertised as such.

May 13, 2019 11:14:13 PM

Thomas Ralph
Judge (Level 3 (UK Magic Officials)), Scorekeeper

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

No draws in Swiss rounds

Based on what I can see in MTR10.4, tournaments are assumed to follow the Swiss pairing algorithm “unless otherwise announced” – so it seems to me that it's open to TOs to announce that the algorithm and structure will work in the manner Cayce described. Obviously that wouldn't be appropriate to a premier event where the fact sheet must operate.

May 14, 2019 02:41:25 AM

Philip Böhm
Judge (Uncertified), Tournament Organizer

German-speaking countries

No draws in Swiss rounds

The TO could run the event as Single Elimination with 6 rounds, then after round 1 start a second event with 5 rounds as Single Elimination, then after round 2 another and so on.
This sounds like quite a lot of work though, but it's an idea.