If this is the wrong forum, I apologise. Locally we have a fair few players who will finish FNMs at 1-0-3 or 0-0-3. At our last PTQ I had one guy undefeated in round six at 2-0-4. None of these players believe they are playing slowly, blaming everything on their opponent, the matchup, the board state, lots of shuffling, new sleeves (no, seriously) and being afraid of warnings among other things.

I know what the IPG says:

Definition
A player takes longer than is reasonably required to complete game actions. If a judge believes a player is intentionally playing slowly to take advantage of a time limit, the infraction is Unsporting Conduct — Stalling.

It is also slow play if a player continues to execute a loop without being able to provide an exact number of iterations and the expected resulting game state.
Examples
A. A player repeatedly reviews his opponent’s graveyard without any significant change in game state.
B. A player spends time writing down the contents of an opponent’s deck while resolving Thought
Hemorrhage.
C. A player takes an excessive amount of time to shuffle his deck between games.
D. A player gets up from his seat to look at standings or goes to the bathroom without permission of an
official.
Philosophy
All players have the responsibility to play quickly enough so that their opponents are not at a significant
disadvantage because of the time limit. A player may be playing slowly without realizing it. A comment of “I need you to play faster” is often appropriate and all that is needed. Further slow play should be penalized.

Additional Remedy
An additional turn is awarded for each player, to be applied if the match exceeds the time limit. If multiple players on each side are playing the same game (such as in Two-Headed Giant) only one additional turn is awarded per team. This turn extension occurs before any end-of-match procedure can begin and after any time extensions that may have been issued.

No additional turns are awarded if the match is already in additional turns, though the Warning still applies.

If Slow Play has significantly affected the result of the match, the Head Judge may upgrade the penalty.

What I'm wondering is how you handle it at your own events. Do you watch for this at Regular? What guidelines do you use before saying something? How do you handle players who are adamant that they are not playing slowly? Do you consider the board state when assessing slow play?

I know this infraction is almost entirely down to subjectivity but some discussion and sharing of best practices might help all of us get better at spotting this when it happens.

Moved to the Regular REL forum.

Consider the decks that they're playing as well. Some players are die-hard control players and will play slow decks, but not play them necessarily slowly.

Otherwise, chat to them after (or before) the event. Explain to them the situation, how it doesn't work for them (they're not winning) or for anyone else (it's slowing the event down).

After that, all you can do is be vigilant, watching the matches yourself after time has been called and watching for the traditional “slump” that happens – players will play super fast up to time is called, and then immediately slow down due to lack of time pressure.

Communication is key; use it to your advantage :)

Also if you are watching a match and a player seems to be playing a little slow, there is nothing wrong with giving a little nudge like “I need you to make a decision”. Many times that will get the match moving at a more reasonable pace.

If you have to do this often to the same player though I'd take the player aside an have a chat with them.

As a last resort you can give a player a final warning, and let them know that if this happens again they will be game lossed. However I don't like doing that for slow play at regular REL if possible. Most of the time I've noted players playing slowly at regular REL events had to do with the players skill level, and the player not understanding the interactions of their cards as it pertains the to present game state.

Edited Cris Plyler (May 12, 2014 07:01:13 AM)

Originally posted by Chris Lansdell:

What guidelines do you use before saying something?

I would put myself in the position of the players in the current board state. If I would have already made a decision and they are still thinking about making a play in that same situation, then it looks like slow play to me and I would ask them to please make a decision. This technique works for me because I frequently play in tournaments so I am familiar with a variety of deck archetypes that are popular in sanctioned events.

Also, if I am watching a game and I would have to ask the question, “Who is the active player right now?” because it is not apparent since a play hasn't been made for a while, then I would also caution the player with priority to make a play.

If players are regularly going literally 0-0-3, then I don't think there's any uncertainty, and I think having a chat with the players would be a good thing. If you can manage it, I recommend observing in the middle of the round, not at the very end. As Jack said: players will often slow down after time is called, and they think that's perfectly fine, and it seems like an unnecessary additional issue to discuss. The problem here seems far deeper.

As to what to say:
1) Give advice on how to play quicker! I've done this both in my capacity as a player, and also in my capacity as a judge (as a judge: when their match has completed). This will depend some on what you observed.
a) In board-stalls, it's very important to assess if what you've drawn (or if what they've just played) changes the math. If not then pass the turn quickly. Don't recount power every turn.
b) Do lots of thinking on my opponents turn. “If I draw a blank on my next turn, do I alpha-strike? Let me count power”
c) Be LESS Verbose. You don't need to tell your opponent that you are tapping that Temple of Plenty for white, and an Opaline Unicorn for red, in order to cast Bronze Sable. No no no.

2) I like appealing to Justice / Fairness. Emphasize that if a player is allowed to spend infinite time thinking, then that isn't fair for that players opponent who would then have no way to prevent a draw…. or who could only prevent a draw by playing at a truly breakneck play that allowed for no thought. If they completely fail to recognize this as a valid point, you may try illustrating an absurd example of spending literally 40 minutes debating whether or not to attack. This quickly suggests the existence of a limit on how long they can think, and then you just need to convince them that they are beyond that limit (Your honor I present exhibit 0-0-3).

3) Point out other players who play a similar controlling deck but don't perma-draw. Or how a 0-0-3 player's opponents from each round concluded their other rounds just fine.

3b) Literally direct the slow players to watch the actual matches of other, snappier, players who play similarly durdly decks.

Because judges do not need to know all the decks, and their skills to play vary a lot, assess whether or not there is slow play on these criteria will result in inconsistent decisions.

Usually I proceed as follows:
1 - I look at the board state,
2 - If in the meantime there´s no action of any of the players , I ask who is the the active player and what are they waiting for,
3 - Usually the player who is thinking at that moment decides just afterwards. If he does not, I wait a little bit (a few seconds to allow him to finish the reasoning ) and ask: “ You have to make a decision now”.
4- If I see that a player is playing at a very slow pace, I caution him to play faster.

Be at Regular REL or REL Competitive , when there is a player who is usually playing slow, I always try to have a chat with him at the end of the match to explain why he can not play that way and how he can avoid it ( eg , if the deck is complex he has to practice more) .

It seems that the situation you're describing is fairly pervasive at your FNM. This suggests that it's not so much a matter of an individual's bad habits, but a culture in which said habits are perceived as normal and acceptable. These are different issues with different remedies.

Others will have had far more experience in this, but it seems to me that although approaching individual players will help, you may get more mileage out of addressing things with the TO. As judges we are meant to be role models, but the truth is that the proprietor has the most direct control over the environment and its culture. Along with all the rather good advice above, I'd make sure that there is a clearly visible game clock, and announcements at the beginning, halfway, and 10-minutes-left marks in the round.

You want to be careful about instituting disincentives for ties, as this almost necessarily leads to a perceived incentive to Improperly Determine a Winner.

At REL, I usually use plain speak. What this means is that I dont bring up IPG or anything like that unless it is a repeated offence. Case in point, there is one player at my store that will slow down his play if he loses the first game in hopes that he will get the win and then the 3rd will be a draw (this is my assumption, but its probably a right one).

After watching him deliberating on his turn for about 15 minutes one day, I said “Hey, NAME, you've got no creatures, you've got no planeswalkers, you've got one card in hand… either its useful, or its not - lets get the game further down the road here”. He promptly started playing at a reasonable pace after that.

I think that it was an effective way of dealing with the issue.

I hope you exaggerate here. If you watched him for 15 minutes, well, you missed the opportunities to get him to speed up probably for the last 13 minutes or more. If he had 1 card in hand and the board was not overly complicated, maybe 14 minutes or more…

-Eric Shukan


—————
After watching him deliberating on his turn for about 15 minutes one day, I said “Hey, NAME, you've got no creatures, you've got no planeswalkers, you've got one card in hand. either its useful, or its not - lets get the game further down the road here”. He promptly started playing at a reasonable pace after that.

I appreciate all the input so far. I was surprised this got moved to the Regular forum since I was talking about GPTs/PTQs as well, but the advice herein is useful regardless.

The only thing I still want to know: when do you issue warnings? When do you just ask the player to make a decision?

(By the way I have my own guidelines, I mainly wanted to get a discussion going to see what others do and perhaps learn from them.)

Whn I get bored watching him think, I usually ask him to make a play: “We gotta have a decision and a play, please.”. 15 sec later I give slow play warning. Roughly. Rule of thumb. But I don't like being bored :)

-Eric

My rule of thumb is if I can walk up to a match and figure out a play then I ask them to make a play. Once they make a play I may wander off and then come back. At that point i issue the warning at Comp, or stern talking to at Regular. We have two players who often play too slowly and after one too many post draw comments of “My opponent was playing slow” we have started to change the culture at the shop. Players are no longer shy or hesitant to say something to their opponent or call the judges.

Of course it took quite a bit of trial and error, so make sure you don't give up until you find a solution that works for you.

Originally posted by Eric Shukan:

I hope you exaggerate here. If you watched him for 15 minutes

It was at FNM and I was playing my game, so I wasnt “watch” watching him - but his opponent brought up the fact that he hadnt made a move. So that is when I got involved.

Originally posted by Chris Lansdell:

I was surprised this got moved to the Regular forum since I was talking about GPTs/PTQs as well, but the advice herein is useful regardless.

Your original post mentioned FNM and Regular…

At Competitive REL, enforce Slow Play per the IPG.