This happened to me last week-end as I was HJ my first GPT. I got a call from a table where AP had played Vendillion Clique, and then drew its card instantly, without letting the priority to anyone, nor targeting himself, nor revealing a card. Seeing how he had mess the game and taking into consideration he was going to lose no matter what, he just conceded.

Since I got called, I still wanted to leave a trace in the system so further offenses can be more severe, if needed and appropriated to be. I finally opted for a GPE-GRV with a warning. I didn't opt for the GPE-DEC since the card wasn't illegally drawn, it was part of Clique's ability. I also thought about OoOS, but it more seemed to be apply-able for combat phase errors, not a trigger one.

If you had to fix this error in a not-conceded match would a rewind with “put a random card back on top” be sufficient?

What's your thoughts?

Drawing Extra Cards applies when a card is put into the hand and there was no discernible GRV immediately before that. Since the opponent had no chance to realize there was something wrong before the player drew a card, DEC would have been appropriate, with the accompanying Game Loss penalty.

If the opponent had somehow confirmed the draw first, you could escape DEC and apply GRV instead, and in that case you would rewind by putting a random card on top.

This looks like Drawing Extra Cards to me. The annotated IPG is pretty helpful here:

The “no other GPE or CPV” clause tends to give newer judges a lot of problems. They tend to overanalyze when the error occurred. For example, activating Liliana Vess’s second ability allows you to search for a card and put it on top of your library. If a player accidentally puts the card into his or her hand instead of on top of the library, this is Drawing Extra Cards. Some newer judges might argue that there is a GPE right before it, saying “They resolved the ability incorrectly, therefore it’s GRV, not DEC.” An easy way to remember the correct infraction is: if the first opportunity an opponent had to possibly notice a problem was when the card hit the hand, it is DEC. In the case of the Liliana example, everything is fine with the game until the card goes into the hand.

This is pretty much the exact situation described above - the first point at which things went wrong was when the card hit his hand, so it's DEC.

Originally posted by Samuel Tremblay:

This happened to me last week-end as I was HJ my first GPT. I got a call from a table where AP had played Vendillion Clique, and then drew its card instantly, without letting the priority to anyone, nor targeting himself, nor revealing a card. Seeing how he had mess the game and taking into consideration he was going to lose no matter what, he just conceded.

Since I got called, I still wanted to leave a trace in the system so further offenses can be more severe, if needed and appropriated to be. I finally opted for a GPE-GRV with a warning. I didn't opt for the GPE-DEC since the card wasn't illegally drawn, it was part of Clique's ability. I also thought about OoOS, but it more seemed to be apply-able for combat phase errors, not a trigger one.

If you had to fix this error in a not-conceded match would a rewind with “put a random card back on top” be sufficient?

What's your thoughts?

Clarification - AP cast Vendilion Clique and he then drew the card?

It was a GPE-DEC though. You cannot draw the card unless the choice to reveal a card is made during the trigger resolution. The trigger has to be announced, the target must be announced, a card must be chosen, the card must be revealed, and it must be put on the bottom of a library. Only then can a card be drawn.

Basically, I see a number of things here happening all at once. There seems to be a Missed Trigger/Game Rule Violation(I suppose I could be convinced he is just shortcutting through everything and effectively implying that he targeted himself. He still committed a GRV by not revealing a card/putting it on bottom of his library). I'd still go with DEC. Drawing a card without anything causing him to is a textbook GPE-DEC.

Edited Alan Dreher (May 9, 2014 05:37:48 AM)

Originally posted by Samuel Tremblay:

where AP had played Vendillion Clique, and then drew its card instantly

When you say “played”, do you mean that the Clique has been cast, or that it has been cast AND resolved?

Cast and resolved. My thinking behind this is the card isn't put illegally in AP's hand, it's put into his hand as part of Vendillion Clique's Ability. It was just put in the wrong order.

Don't go too far with Out-of-Order Sequencing. Josh's analysis above is spot on. If the first error that can be noticed is the drawing of the card without another error that can be caught, then it is almost always Drawing Extra Cards. In this case, it isn't even just a set of actions by the active player done in a wrong order as there was a trigger, some passing of priority, and a clear point in the game where the opponent should have been given opportunity to act. I'd rule DEC here.