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Competitive REL » Post: Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets

Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets

Oct. 14, 2012 04:56:07 PM

Jason Flatford
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

USA - Northeast

Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets

Player controls Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets. Player reveals a card after he untaps. Says something to the effect of, “That was for Dark Confidant.” Then the player reveals for Delver.

The issue here is that the player revealed the card before announcing which trigger he wanted to resolve first.

Fraud, GRV, or Other? Discuss

Oct. 14, 2012 10:12:46 PM

Peter Richmond
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry)), Scorekeeper

USA - Pacific Northwest

Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets

First, I'd check with both players to see how he revealed the card. The key difference between Delver and Confidant is how the card is revealed, with Delver being looked at before being revealed. If the player revealed the card without looking at it first, I'd rule that he had performed Dark's trigger. Had the player looked at it first, then I'd be concerned with a GRV, since he would've looked at the card first, clearly signifying that he performed Delver's trigger.

Either way, I'd ask the player to be much more communicative with his opponent to prevent any further confusion.

EDIT: As for “clearly signifying the trigger”, I'd like to change my view on that matter. At this point, I would actually be considering GRV and Fraud under the following circumstances:

1. A player can technically look at the card first, then say ‘oh, I revealed it, I just wanted to see it first’.
2. The player did, indeed, look at the card before revealing.

For the question, I will consider the latter scenario, of which the player revealed the card after looking at it. Assuming that the player's intention was not to cheat (as found through a light investigation) I would rule a GRV and back up the game to before he put the effects on the stack, shuffling his library (keeping known cards in place). Therefore, he no longer has the advantage of knowing his top card prior to the triggers, and he must make a choice now.

Further so, we also now have a card in that player's hand that shouldn't be there at this time. I'd shuffle the card, if uniquely recognizable, back into the library, else choosing a card at random to shuffle in. With all this, I'd think this fix would make the situation the most rectified.

Edited Peter Richmond (Oct. 14, 2012 10:32:09 PM)

Oct. 16, 2012 01:48:53 AM

Gareth Pye
Judge (Level 2 (Oceanic Judge Association))

Ringwood, Australia

Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets

I largely agree with Peter, but hopefully I'd be pretty interested in
the possibility that he was cheating.

It would occur to most players during playtesting that those two card
interact in ways that can be confusing and that they should be careful
about them in tournament play.

Oct. 29, 2012 10:56:53 PM

Adam Zakreski
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Western Provinces

Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets

Regardless of Dark Confidant being on the battlefield, I encourage players to announce the Delver trigger, then pause for a moment before the look/reveal. It is a triggered ability, so the opponent should be given a moment to respond, it also makes it clear that the player has acknowledged the trigger and didn't skip straight to his Draw Step.

Throw in the Dark Confidant and it makes it even more important to explicitly declare the triggers.

Nov. 16, 2012 01:37:56 PM

Louis Fernandes
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Great Lakes

Dark Confidant and Delver of Secrets

One important note that hasn't been brought up yet: how has this player been doing things for the rest of the match? Unless they just flopped both Delver and Bob onto the table last turn, we should have some sort of action established that could help clarify this.