Hello fellow judges!

I was hoping to get some suggestions from folks about how to handle Deck/Pool swaps at a Competitive REL sealed event.

The majority of the players at my LGS have never played in a competitive REL event and some would like to head to the PTQs that are coming up this fall. To help them out with that transition from regular to competitive I'd like to run some events in the shop at competitive so that they don't go into shock when someone tells them they have to give away all the cards they just opened.

However, I've not yet had the opportunity to judge a limited event at competitive REL. I've done a few constructed events, and I feel confident in my abilities with the exception of handling the logistics of a deck swap.

So, can you please let me know, what procedures you have found work best for you?

I've heard of some events having players put the pools into ziplock bags and then into a box for players to pick from, and I've heard of others assigning them out by rolling dice. I'm expecting a fairly low turnout for these events as my local community is still pretty small, so if you have some recommendations on methods that would be appropriate for approximately 16 players that would be much appreciated!

For a low number of players, collecting all the pools (with a rubber band or baggie around them) into one place, and then randomly assigning them to players is usually fine. However, for larger events, this is usually not possible.

What is fairly typical is that the head judge will instruct the players to pass their pools to the left, to the right, or across from each other, so that while not truly random, most of the players will end up with a different pool than what they started with.

If you only manage to get 16 players, collecting and redistributing should be fine.

Hi, there,

I usually just pass to to left/right/opposite one or two times. Using a ziplock bag is a good idea if you would like to collect and redistribute.

Moreover, as you mentioned in your post, your players and you may lack of competitive limited event experience, I think you should pay more attention on the registration. Usually, it would cause more trouble than deck swapping.

Happy judging
Simon

What is also a good idea is to add another step in the process.

After the players have finished the registration of their pool, they swap their pool and the decklist to the player in front of them. The other player just verifies, that the pool is registered correctly. You should give them 5 minutes after the time for pool registration to do so. Then, they swap back and you perform the actual deck swap.

This decreases the errors that show up during deck registration. It adds five to ten minutes to you tournament but it will make the deck registration process run more smoothly. It might a bit to much if you have only a few players, but you can consider this.

When doing the actual deck swap, I prefer to swap at least two times to the left or the right so that players get a pool they have most likely not seen before.

At Competitive REL, I usually double-check by having the players pass their registered pool the the person in front of them to check for any mistakes. Then I collect all the pools into a box, mix them up and then just go around the room giving them away at random to all the players.

As for collection tips - it's pretty customary here in Poland to do “sandwiches” or “pierogi” out of the pools. You do them by placing your pool on the registering sheet, rolling it up, and bending at the edges, so that the sheet is actually the packaging for the card pool. It's very easy, quick and convenient. It looks like this:













Once everyone makes a pool sandwich, I can collect them and distribute them with ease. It does have the slight disadvantage of bending the registration sheet, but it's nothing serious:



I've never had anyone complain about the quality of their sheet after this kind of swap. :)

Edited Konrad Wieczorek (Sept. 13, 2012 03:13:28 PM)

Now I want a sandwich . . . oh wait, I can make that now! Om nom nom nom nom!

Great answers!

I’m totally down with performing deck swaps where we don’t collect pools but simply ask players to pass them some number of announced directions around the table. This is a great method that saves a lot of time and effort, not to mention the pain of having to pick rubber bands up off the floor all day long.

However, I have noticed that in addition to the suggestion of asking the players to pass to the left and/or right a few times, some judges in this thread have also proposed directing players to pass the pools across the table. I recommend NOT instructing players to pass across the table during a deck swap- doing so creates pairs of players that have registered each others pools. For an illustration of what I’m talking about, consider the following arrangement of players around a table awaiting passing instructions:



Let’s say that our passing strategy is going to be to pass to the left twice and then pass to the player across the table. When all is said and done, this is what we have:



However, you’ll notice that each player now has the pool that was registered by the player that has the pool that the first player registered! For example, player A has player I’s pool, and player I has player A’s pool. You can try making similar diagrams with varying numbers of players or pass-left/pass-right instructions, but if you include a pass-across instruction, you will always end up with at least some of these darn pairs.

The concern here should be obvious. If two players in such a pair (G and H, for example, who also happen to be sitting next to each other in this diagram) decided to be unscrupulous, it would be very easy for them to, say, swap a few cards, modify the registered pools, and mutually agree to have each others backs should they be approached by any judges that day wanting to know if the corrections to the list were legitimate.

Instead, I recommend just picking one direction (left or right), and having all players pass at least twice in that direction. For example, here’s what happens the players just passed to the left 3 times:



No pairs! Also, nobody got their own pool back! In my opinion, this is a much better way to do it.

Thanks.


Abe

I don't really see how such pairs present a problem. Collusion like that generally requires premeditation, but since the exact pass structure isn't reliable and seating is often predetermined, it's unlikely that two players who have agreed to do this kind of thing will become paired in this manner. What's the likelihood that a player is going to openly suggest doing something so obviously shady with someone they don't already know and trust not to call a judge on them?

But even assuming that your players will jump at the chance to fudge pool contents, what's stopping them from doing so without the help of such pairs? It's perfectly possible that one player might ask his registrant to lie for him even if the second player didn't receive the pool registered by the first player.

My biggest problem with passing is the fact that people talk about their pools as they register them. It is very common to hear “Well, this pool is obviously playing red” or “must be nice to open 5 Daggerdrome Imps.” I tend to prefer picking them up and redistributing them. Players tend to be more happy with it, as well, because they feel like they have more of a chance to get a bomb pool. They mind shipping the pool less, for the same reason.

At more relaxed events, sure.  At a Competitive REL Sealed Deck, players should NOT be talking during the registration, nor during the build process.  Remind the players that deck registration and building are solo & silent processes.


Smaller events can be handled by collect & redistribute.  We even used to manage it at GPs - and the delays caused by that led to adopting a pass strategy instead.

One trick I like to use - and it avoids a lot of the concerns people have expressed: your players are seated in long rows, right?  Have them turn around and exchange with the person behind them, as one of the passes.  (Players on the outside edge just hold on to their packs.)  Once you've done that, it's quite effective to also include one pass across.

As to concerns about players getting their pool back - it's OK.  In fact, it used to be a requirement, that 10-15% of the players, randomly chosen, would receive their own pool back.  (To discourage stealing rares.)

Thanks! – Scott Marshall, DCIJUDGE-L NetRep, L5, Denver
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Hey Michael,

This doesn't have much to do with the swap procedures being discussed, but I would encourage you to run your “training” events at regular, and implement the procedures of competitive. So players would be registering pools, swapping, etc, but their errors wouldn't detract from the actual tournament. Additionally, as a judge, you can say things like “At the PTQ next weekend, this would be considered DEC and you'd get a game loss, but here we fix it.” In my somewhat limited (ha! get it? limited? Cuz we're at a sealed event?) experience with “practice” comp REL events actually held at comp REL, the additional rules and policy burden on the new players wasn't worth it. A warmup or two might help them to realize how much more strict we are at comp.

In my experience, I've found that getting players to leave the area after registering their pools is useful.
Have each player leave their pool and registration sheet face-down on the table and leave the room. Then just assign new seats to each player.

This also allows judges to easily determine players who haven't finished yet, and assist them.