Hi guys. What does it mean “root cause” as stated on the IPG?
It needs to be an infraction? Can I assume a player thinking in a wrong way could be a root cause?

Let's say a player resolving an ability of a card that is no longer on the battlefield… thinking it's a legal ability to resolve is it valid to consider it as a root cause? Let's say: Audrey thinks her Thassa is still on the battlefield, so in her upkeep she scries the top card of her library to the bottom. Can I assume that thinking Thassa is on the battlefield is enough to not issue a warning due to L@EC and a warning due to a GRV (by putting that card on the bottom of the library)?

Thank you.

Edited Vinicius Quaiato (Aug. 12, 2014 09:25:15 AM)

Originally posted by IPG 1.3:

Separate infractions committed or discovered at the same time are treated as separate penalties, though if the root cause is the same, only the more severe one is applied.

How about a couple (fairly) simple examples?
You control Blood Moon, I tap 3 lands to cast Divination, but can only get RRR from those lands - and then I only draw 1 card.
I draw a card for the turn, but manage to knock a couple cards off my library (L@EC), and then dislodge another card or two trying to put the first ones back…

As you can see, the scenarios aren't common, but the idea is not to “pile on” when a single action leads to multiple issues, each of which could be considered an infraction; instead, treat them all as the most severe.

d:^D

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

You control Blood Moon, I tap 3 lands to cast Divination, but can only get RRR from those lands - and then I only draw 1 card.

Scott, let me see if I got it right: Are you arguing that the root cause for these two errors (casting the spell without being able to pay for it and drawing one less card) have the same root cause? Because in the way I see it resolving a spell incorrectly has nothing to do with being or not being able to cast it. In my opinion, the root cause is not the same at all, the player commited two infractions which have nothing to do with one another.

For me, if two events have the same root cause then they have to be correlated in some way, I agree the player only drew the one card because he cast the spell for its wrong mana cost, but I can't see how these two mistakes have the same root cause (not counting the player's lack of awareness - if that can be counted as a root cause please let me know)

On the other hand, I agree with Quaiato's example, for me the root cause of bothing L@EC and the GRV is trying to resolve a trigger which doesn't exist from a permanent which was on the battlefield a turn ago, so both infractions are correlated by the same root cause.

Can you please explain how the Blood Moon example you gave has the same root cause?

An alternate example: A player submits a 59-card decklist and presents a deck which matches the list. They have submitted an illegal decklist, and presented and illegal deck. These are both Deck/Decklist Problem, which is a Game Loss. But the root cause is the same: the player forgot a card from their deck. We will not penalize this with two Game Losses.

Henrique, I think the Blood Moon example is reffering to having a GRV and another GRV penalty. The GRV for casting Divination without appropriate mana, and the second GRV because they drew a card when they couldn't have because of the spell telling them too. In this case the root cause is the player cast a spell that they couldn't have cast, and the spell instructed them to draw a card.

EDIT: Fixed the penalties I listed, the second one was wrong (putting in DEC, instead of another GRV).

Edited DJ Andrucyk (Aug. 13, 2014 08:37:38 AM)

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

a single action leads to multiple issues, each of which could be considered an infraction

That really is the key phrase in my previous post.

d:^D

With Divination, hasn't a GRV - GPE (illegally casting Divination) been committed before drawing a card, making this not GRV - DEC?

Originally posted by Talin Salway:

With Divination, hasn't a GRV - GPE (illegally casting Divination) been committed before drawing a card, making this not GRV - DEC?

The second error wasn't GRV - DEC. It was an additional instance of GRV - GPE by resolving Divination incorrectly.