This came up at one of my events recently and I'm curious how you would have handled it.

Round begins and players at table 1 have been selected for a deck check.
When the decks are collected, 1 of the players asks “how long will this take?” getting the response of no more then 7 mins.
At which time, that player leaves the venue to walk across the parking lot to the grocery store.

what would you do?

This seems to be a very clear cut case of TE-Slow Play according to the IPG, fitting best example D :

D. A player gets up from his seat to look at standings or goes to the bathroom without permission of an official.

Since the infraction committed is so egregious (akin to just up and leaving in the middle of the match), and has a high potential for abuse, deviating a bit from the IPG and upgrading this to a Game Loss feels very appropriate.

Explain to the player that in the future, it is necessary to receive permission from a Judge in order to leave the table in the middle of a match (explaining that despite their decks being check, the match is definitely live).

Edited Charles Ferguson (Sept. 8, 2014 07:48:15 AM)

I don't see a provision in the IPG for upgrading this infraction, so I'd
not issue a GL if I end up considering this Slow Play.

I see this possibly being Slow Play, but have in mind that it might be not.
Use your best judgment to determine if the player leaving the table caused
the opponent to be at a disadvantage because of the round time limit.

//DLI

Personally I feel that when we bring the decks back from the check and the player is seated, then we don't have an issue. I would also let them know, that if they do not make it back in time they would receive a penalty.

Many times players ask to use the bathroom while they are being deck checked. The difference is that we normally allow players to be excused for bathroom usage, not to run to the store. Could a player lie to us and ask to use the bathroom then go somewhere else, yes. It's behavior we want to discourage. Events usually don't have the resources to watch players that carefully.

My point is while they are being checked do we care what they do as long as they are seated by the time we return the decks to them, I say no. I don't care.

Jason, is your concern that the player walked out of the venue, or that he
did so without permission?

Both. I feel that the player leaving the venue was more of an issue, simply because he could have gained access to information he shouldn't have, and we would have no way of knowing.

Originally posted by Jason Clark:

I feel that the player leaving the venue was more of an issue, simply because he could have gained access to information he shouldn't have, and we would have no way of knowing.

If you're concerned about him going to an internet cafe, meeting a friend, or hitting up a card store, then he's working much harder than players with smart phones who can access that friend/info if he goes to the bathroom or down the hall. I wouldn't supervise him, so he has the opportunity to gain that information if he so chooses.

I agree with DLI & Nick. If you feel the need to penalize this, TE-Slow Play seems appropriate. If the guy thought he could run to the grocery store for a juice box and be back in 5 minutes, then a “please ask for permission to get up” should suffice, particularly if it doesn't affect time in the match/gets back in time.

I don't think I'd even consider any advantage he could gain, because he could gain it far easier.

TBH, I don't see this anything bad - yet. If he's not in his seat when the decks are returned, then that's a different story. But him taking a break while we check the deck? They go to the lav, they go to the bathroom…what's the big deal about the supermarket?

Only whether comes back in time is an issue to me.

Eric S.

I've had players ask if they can go to the bathroom, get a drink, have a smoke etc while being deck checked. My only concern with this particular scenario is the lack of actually asking if they can run across the road. I would only penalise with Slow Play if they didn't return in time to either restart the match or deal with a judge enquiry about their deck/decklist. I would also explain to the player in any case about the need to request permission.

The round has started and the players should be at their table. While during a deck check they can´t play, they should still ask for permission to leave the table.
I would not have granted the permission to leave the store to do some shopping, because I don´t see the urge to do that right now and there is a good chance this will disrupt my event, when he returns after 15 minutes, because of whatever happened and I don´t want to be like “yeah, damn that I allowed you to do this”.

When the player returns in time, I would tell him to ask for permission in the future and that´s it.

If the player did not return by the time the decks are returned, didn´t he just concede the match? He left the table and the venue, without informing any judge about what he is up to. He has not returned in a short amount of time thereafter. I don´t think this is slow play, because there is no game being played and this is surely not the same situation as going to the bathroom mid match. If I had to find a fitting infration it would rather be tardiness.

Originally posted by Thomas Ludwig:

I would not have granted the permission to leave the store to do some shopping, because I don´t see the urge to do that right now and there is a good chance this will disrupt my event, when he returns after 15 minutes, because of whatever happened and I don´t want to be like “yeah, damn that I allowed you to do this”.

If we start judging what is and isn't a ‘worthy’ reason to give players permission to leave the table, then we are just incentivizing them to lie (for example, to say that they are going to the toilet during the deck check when in fact they are going to smoke).

You can tell the player how long they have, thus ensuring that it doesn't disrupt the event - just tell them that they have to be back in 5 minutes time, and specify when that is by the round clock so that there can't be any debate about what time it is. If they're not back at that point, then you can penalize it.

This approach seems wrong. If people could not like my decission that doesn´t mean I encourage them to lie!

Players are expected to sit at their table when the round starts, untill they finished their match. If they want to leave the table, they have to ask a judge for permission, this permission must not be granted on default?

Sometimes people aren´t aware of how long it will take to do something. If I wanted to shop I am more likely to agree I can do it in 5 minutes, than I am to accept the reality that it takes 10-15 minutes to do so. Now I return to the venue 15 minutes later, I recieve a penalty, I am upset. The judge has to extend the round length. I would rather like to prevent this from happening and as long as the players have a good reason to leave, I will grant the permission, I just don´t want to lose time, because something happened that I could easily prevent and that was not neccessary.

Instead of approaching this with a Judge=Authority, Player=Subject perspective, let's focus on customer service. Judges are not dictators, ruling tournaments with an iron fist; we are facilitators, serving the needs of the entire event - and the players are our customers. Let's keep them coming back with fair and reasonable handling of each situation.

So, when the player asks “how long will this take?”, the judge can simply say “please be ready to continue play in 7 minutes, or Tardiness may apply.” (But if you say that, don't be the judge that takes 10 minutes to decide that fingernail marks on the sleeves of 5 quite different cards are or are not “marked cards”…)

d:^D