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Knowledge Pool Scenarios » Post: I Heard You Like Triggers - SILVER

I Heard You Like Triggers - SILVER

Sept. 19, 2014 04:07:05 PM

Antonio Zanutto
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

Brazil

I Heard You Like Triggers - SILVER

Vincent, if we have that this is a GPE - MT, then the solution is simple: no warning for either player, and Arthur chooses whether to resolve the ability the next time a player would get priority or when a player would get priority at the start of the next phase, remind players to be more careful and move along.
My reasoning, and it may be incorrect, is that putting the card onto the battlefield in the end step is not a trigger, but part of the rules of the card, such as Desecration Demon; putting a counter on the Demon after tapping it is part of the instruction of the card.
Do I make sense?

Sept. 19, 2014 06:43:33 PM

Kyle Connelly
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Northeast

I Heard You Like Triggers - SILVER

Originally posted by Antonio Zanutto:

Vincent, if we have that this is a GPE - MT, then the solution is simple: no warning for either player, and Arthur chooses whether to resolve the ability the next time a player would get priority or when a player would get priority at the start of the next phase, remind players to be more careful and move along.
My reasoning, and it may be incorrect, is that putting the card onto the battlefield in the end step is not a trigger, but part of the rules of the card, such as Desecration Demon; putting a counter on the Demon after tapping it is part of the instruction of the card.
Do I make sense?

Within the rules it should be a trigger, the dies trigger is one ability but the wording on immortality

When enchanted creature dies, return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control. Return Gift of Immortality to the battlefield attached to that creature at the beginning of the next end step.

shows that it is setting up another trigger as the following rules

603.7. An effect may create a delayed triggered ability that can do something at a later time. A delayed
triggered ability will contain “when,” “whenever,” or “at,” although that word won’t usually begin
the ability

So it is a delayed triggered ability set up from the previous ability.

Edited Kyle Connelly (Sept. 19, 2014 06:43:52 PM)

Sept. 23, 2014 11:28:28 AM

Joshua Feingold
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Midatlantic

I Heard You Like Triggers - SILVER

It's time to close the book on this week's scenario, so here's your solution.

As many of you correctly surmised, this is an instance of Game Play Error - Missed Trigger. It's a somewhat unusual case because Gift of Immortality creates a normal trigger that must be acknowledged upon resolution, but that trigger creates a subsequent delayed zone change trigger. Noticing the initial effect does not make missing the second a Game Rules Violation, as some have suggested, because the second trigger was successfully created, even if the players forgot to resolve it. And because there is no GRV, Arthur cannot commit Failure to Maintain Game State.

No warnings are issued, as this trigger is not generally detrimental.

As for the fix, many also correctly identified that, as a delayed zone change trigger, Arthur does not choose whether or not put it on the stack at all, but only whether to do so now or at the start of the next phase. If Arthur chooses to resolve the trigger immediately, it just resolves. Otherwise, as we are currently in the Declare Attackers step of the Combat Phase, as indicated by the recent resolution of Brimaz's trigger, the next phase will be the second Main Phase. If Brimaz does not die during the remainder of the Combat Phase and Gift of Immortality is still in the graveyard at that time, Gift will return to the battlefield attached to Brimaz. As normal with the Gift trigger, if either Brimaz or Gift has been removed from its respective zone, the trigger will do nothing upon resolution.

One last note is that we want to avoid overtly reminding the player that if he chooses to resolve the trigger later, he can kill the creature or exile the enchantment before it comes back. Just present Arthur the choices of “immediately or at the start of the second Main Phase.” If you suspect either player is making bad assumptions about what will happen at the start of the second Main Phase, just hang around by the table after finishing your ruling to help resolve the trigger correctly.

Thanks to everyone who participated this week, and we'll be back tomorrow with a new scenario.