Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Regular REL » Post: Incorrectly resolving Master the Way - twice

Incorrectly resolving Master the Way - twice

Oct. 1, 2014 12:19:23 AM

Glenn Fisher
Judge (Uncertified)

USA - Pacific Northwest

Incorrectly resolving Master the Way - twice

The following event occurred at my store's 2HG FNM event:

Alpaca announces "Master the Way“ and starts reading the card's text. He has neither tapped mana nor announced any targets. ”Draw a Card." He draws a card.

Nightingale (with lightning reflexes) snatches the drawn card out of Alpaca's hand before it touches the rest of the cards, and shuffles it back into Alpaca's deck. Nightingale then admonishes Alpaca about the need to finish casting his spells and waiting for any opponent responses before beginning to resolve them.

Alpaca is somewhat miffed that the card was shuffled back into his library instead of just being placed on top, and asks me whether his deck was really supposed to be shuffled.

Ultimately, Master the Way was countered by an unmorphed Icefeather Aven bouncing the intended target. Alpaca once again draws a card for Master the Way, which Nightingale once again plucks from his grip and shuffles back into his library. This results in another judge call to confirm that the card draw of Master the Way is also countered.

In both cases, it is easy enough explain to Alpaca why his library had to be randomized. Alpaca's only lingering question is whether Nightingale should be making the fix herself before explaining why she was making it and confirming with Alpaca that the fix was correct.

I dodged getting involved in a discussion on that topic at that time. But for my two cents, I think that players self-judging at REL is a very convenient thing to have, so long as they're able to do so correctly. I didn't tell Nightingale to “keep doing what you're doing” but I had no inclination to tell her not to shuffle her opponents library until she's asked permission.



As a side note: We run sealed 2HG at the first FNM after a release of a new set, and I would highly recommend this to other stores. Traditionally, the first FNM of a new set had super low attendance (about 8-10 people compared to our usual 23-26), presumably because most people hadn't built decks for the new standard in the ~18 hours that the set has been available for purchase. The 2HG events let a lot of people who usually just play prereleases the chance to play on Friday, which is a small step toward getting them involved in constructed Magic. Last Friday we had 54 players (27 teams) which I believe was a turnout record.

Oct. 1, 2014 12:28:37 AM

Alexis Hunt
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Incorrectly resolving Master the Way - twice

There is no issue with players resolving issues on their own. If the players are happy with a solution that they've come up with, it's more fun for them and less work for judges, so it's a mutual win. There are exceptions (like randomly determining winners), but for the most part, it's totally okay if players let their opponents change their mana, or back up a bit, or what-have-you. The fix needs to be agreed upon by both players, though; if one player takes it upon themselves to unilaterally fix a mistake, that could just dig a deeper hole of illegal actions.

It is absolutely not acceptable for a player to touch another player's cards without permission. Some players are very sensitive about their cards, especially valuable ones (what if she bent an altered $200 card?).

I would recommend taking the opportunity to explain to Nightingale that she shouldn't step in directly, but she should try to stop Alpaca and propose a solution. If he disagrees, then they can get a judge involved.

Oct. 1, 2014 02:55:28 AM

Eric Paré
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Foundry))

Canada - Eastern Provinces

Incorrectly resolving Master the Way - twice

While judging regular REL events at local game stores, I've encountered similar (and many) cases where one player would impose his or her own way of fixing game errors in their own matches instead of calling a judge to straighten the errors out or verifying with the opponent to see if they're okay with it.

Like Sean said, it's acceptable for players to resolve errors without the help of a judge. Personally, at regular REL when I get called over to a match to help out with a problem, I actually help the players work together to find a solution instead of just throwing a fix out there according to the JAR. This way we don't have one player making all the decisions he or she thinks are okay without the opponent having a chance to agree or disagree; and letting players work together to find a solution to a game problem at Reg REL promotes the idea that FNMs and prereleases are fun and relaxing Magic environments.

It's not okay if one player is making all the fixes to a game by himself or herself. It's definitely not okay that Nightingale is manupulating the opponent's cards without asking for permission first. You can “gently” talk to Nightingale about it. Let her know that she can call a judge to get help with any fix to a game error and if she believes that she is confident with her own way of fixing a game, she should verify her solutions with her opponents (or better yet a judge) before proceeding to resolve them.

Edited Eric Paré (Oct. 1, 2014 02:58:39 AM)