So this came up at a Modern event I was playing last night and I'm wondering if I should have called a judge here.

It's game two; I'm up a game. It's the start of my main phase. My opponent controls a tapped Sacred Foundry, a tapped Clifftop Retreat and a tapped Plains. I control two Watery Graves. I play a Ghost Quarter and immediately sacrifice it to destroy my opponent's Foundry. My opponent finds a Mountain. After that resolves, I play Trapmaker's Snare to bring Archive Trap to my hand, then play that Trap and a second that I already had in hand. While peeling cards off the deck for the second Trap, my opponent describes Archive Trap as “gay”.

Should I call a judge at this? What would the call be?

(I had also done something similar in the first game, where in response to my opponent activating an Arid Mesa I had played Trapmaker's Snare, and played the Archive Trap I found with it after the Mesa's ability resolved.)

What's the REL here?

For Competitive, one of the examples for USC-Minor is “A player uses excessively vulgar and profane language.” I'd say referring to something as “gay” is a derogatory manor qualifies. USC-Major requires that the the slur be directed at a person, I believe.

For Regular, refer to the recent JAR update blog: http://blogs.magicjudges.org/regular/2014/09/23/khans-of-tarkir-jar-update/

“Regular REL is many players’ first experience of tournament Magic, so ensuring a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere is important. A player whose behaviour may be upsetting others or making them uncomfortable should be educated and asked to stop immediately.”

There's some leeway with language use here, but using slurs casually (and yes, the same word can be a slur or not depending on context, intent, and usage) is certainly over the line.

When a question is asked in the Regular REL forum, we can assume that the
question is about Regular.

Originally posted by Yonatan Kamensky:

What's the REL here?

For Competitive, one of the examples for USC-Minor is “A player uses excessively vulgar and profane language.” I'd say referring to something as “gay” is a derogatory manor qualifies. USC-Major requires that the the slur be directed at a person, I believe.

For Regular, refer to the recent JAR update blog: http://blogs.magicjudges.org/regular/2014/09/23/khans-of-tarkir-jar-update/

“Regular REL is many players’ first experience of tournament Magic, so ensuring a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere is important. A player whose behaviour may be upsetting others or making them uncomfortable should be educated and asked to stop immediately.”

There's some leeway with language use here, but using slurs casually (and yes, the same word can be a slur or not depending on context, intent, and usage) is certainly over the line.

It was a Regular REL event. (At Competitive I probably would've called a judge, and were I called at that, have given USC-Minor.)

However, everyone within earshot was a regular at the store and nobody appeared uncomfortable at the use of the word–in fact, I imagine I would have taken some flak for calling a judge on my opponent for using the term.

You should never be scared to call people out for that, in a Magic game or in life. That's how you affect positive change.

Originally posted by Shawn Doherty:

When a question is asked in the Regular REL forum, we can assume that the
question is about Regular.

Reading things is good.

I should read things.

Originally posted by Daniel Pareja:

However, everyone within earshot was a regular at the store and nobody appeared uncomfortable at the use of the word–in fact, I imagine I would have taken some flak for calling a judge on my opponent for using the term.

Yeah, that's how it gets when policies like this aren't consistently enforced. Obviously I don't think you were trying to, but by not calling a judge, you're passively contributing to an environment where this sort of thing is okay. I'm not trying to make you feel bad - I'm just trying to make you aware of the effect something like this has on a community.

I'd be surprised if at least one person wasn't concerned about the use of “gay” to describe something in a negative fashion. It sounds like at least one person was, actually - if you weren't, you probably wouldn't have posted this! You will occasionally get flak for calling a judge (or at least saying “Hey, not cool”) in a situation like this, but honestly, know you're doing the right thing when you do it.

Edited Eric Levine (Oct. 15, 2014 11:36:06 AM)

(I have a bit of insider information here in that I play at the same store as Daniel, but I'll do my best to give a generic answer)

Originally posted by Eric Levine:

I'd be surprised if at least one person wasn't concerned about the use of “gay” to describe something in a negative fashion. It sounds like at least one person was, actually - if you weren't, you probably wouldn't have posted this! You will occasionally get flak for calling a judge (or at least saying “Hey, not cool”) in a situation like this, but honestly, know you're doing the right thing when you do it.

More importantly, if there wasn't anyone who was bothered by a remark like that, it may be because everyone who is bothered by remarks like that has already decided not to show up any more. A community can get itself to a point where nothing seems to be wrong because many people don't feel comfortable enough to show up to events at all, and they're entirely silent about it.

As a player, in a situation like this, you're right that you may make the situation worse by publicly drawing attention to it by calling a judge. As Eric suggested, you could simply discourage it directly by saying something like “Hey, not cool”, or you could talk to the judge privately away from the table. The important thing is not to simply let it go entirely.

As a judge, if you're dealing with a community where exclusionary behaviour is acceptable, it's important to strike a balance between ensuring that the behaviour is discouraged and changed over time and not pushing so hard that people start to think that you're overreacting or being dictatorial and as a result don't change.

If you were approached by a player who says that a remark like this made them uncomfortable, it will probably work fine to simply talk to the player who made the comment away from a match, and explain to them why that sort of remark is harmful to the tournament environment. Especially at Regular, players may think of their local store as a place to hang out with friends, and it often hasn't occurred to them to consider the public face of that community or the impact that their behaviour may have. Most players are reasonable, and if you can bring those players around, dealing with the ones who aren't will become easier.

As others have mentioned, we - judges - should be proactive and exemplary in our communities, especially in such situations. Even if we are not judging the event, still many players around know that we are judges and treat us (subconciously?) as paragons.

By the way, if we do not try to influence the community to stir up a change towards the ideal wanted by WPN, who else will?

Imagine the surprise, should that player show up at a GP and continue to exhibit the behavior that he learned was acceptable in his Regular REL environment, back home?

A lot of other great points have been made, but let's not forget that the offending player is also losing out, here - on an opportunity to learn something about how the world really works.

Maybe something as simple as “you know, at a PPTQ|GPT|GP that remark could earn you a Match Loss, if your opponent was offended by it.” That's a non-threatening way of stating the problem; no accusations, no confrontation, just “hey, you should probably know…”

d:^D

The same thing happened to me about two weeks ago when I was judging my very first FNM at my local game store because our local judge couldn't make it that day.

During Draft I was playing against a player who is not of the nicest kind. On his turn, he untaps, draws, looks at the card, then at the board and says: "Man, that's really gay!“. He said that in a manner that made some other people at the store glance over at what was happening.

I then explained to the player that using slurs like that really isn't okay nor cool in any way. The player next to me said he felt offended by that use of language. I also explained to the player how that use of language would probably result in a stern penalty at a Competitive event. (Although he should've already known that since he played at at least one Competitive REL event.)

When I was finished, he looked down at his card, then back up to me, thought for a second and then said: ”Yeah, you're right. Saying ‘That’s gay' is totally retarded.“ (It sounded a bit more offensive in German.)

In a very calm manner I then told the guy: ”Listen. I am telling you this as a judge now. If I ever hear you using that kind of language ever again in here, there will be consequences. Please confirm to me that you will keep this in mind.“ His mumbled ”Okay“ was barely audible. We kept on playing.

Afterwards I was asking myself if I did the right thing in that situation. Would it have been better if I had removed the player from the table for that talk? In the moment it happened I was really perplexed, to say the least. The talk I had with him was really short and to the point. I didn't want to draw too much attention to the whole thing right as it happened, so I tried to keep it as ”casual" as possible - but maybe that only works for some players. Although I'm sure the player in question will now probably think twice before letting out something like that at our game store.

Any advise on what I could've done better to resolve that situation?

I think you did a great job there. Not only will the player in question
think twice but the players around you will know that this issue is taken
seriously.

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Hannes Bernsdorf <
forum-13290-e992@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:

> The same thing happened to me about two weeks ago when I was judging my
> very first FNM at my local game store because our local judge couldn't make
> it that day.
>
> During Draft I was playing against a player who is not of the nicest kind.
> On his turn, he untaps, draws, looks at the card, then at the board and
> says: “Man, that's really *gay*!“. He said that in a manner that made
> some other people at the store glance over at what was happening.
>
> I then explained to the player that using slurs like that really isn't
> okay nor cool in any way. The player next to me said he felt offended by
> that use of language. I also explained to the player how that use of
> language would probably result in a stern penalty at a Competitive event.
> (Although he should've already known that since he played at at least one
> Competitive REL event.)
>
> When I was finished, he looked down at his card, then back up to me,
> thought for a second and then said: ”Yeah, you're right. Saying ‘That’s
> gay' is totally *retarded*.“ (It sounded a bit more offensive in German.)
>
> In a very calm manner I then told the guy: ”Listen. I am telling you this
> as a judge now. If I ever hear you using that kind of language ever again
> in here, there will be consequences. Please confirm to me that you will
> keep this in mind.“ His mumbled ”Okay“ was barely audible. We kept on
> playing.
>
> Afterwards I was asking myself if I did the right thing in that situation.
> Would it have been better if I had removed the player from the table for
> that talk? In the moment it happened I was really perplexed, to say the
> least. The talk I had with him was really short and to the point. I didn't
> want to draw too much attention to the whole thing right as it happened, so
> I tried to keep it as ”casual” as possible - but maybe that only works for
> some players. Although I'm sure the player in question will now probably
> think twice before letting out something like that at our game store.
>
> Any advise on what I could've done better to resolve that situation?
>
> ——————————————————————————–
> If you want to respond to this thread, simply reply to this email. Or view
> and respond to this message on the web at
> http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/post/85547/
>
> Disable all notifications for this topic:
> http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/13290/
> Receive on-site notifications only for this topic:
> http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/13290/?onsite=yes
>
> You can change your email notification settings at
> http://apps.magicjudges.org/notifications/settings/
>



–
*-Eric Levine*

*Marketing & Event Specialist*
*ChannelFireball.com* <http://ChannelFireball.com>

Echoing Eric effectively, Hannes, I think you handled that situation incredibly well. We judges tend to overthink things as a rule (which is very useful sometimes), but have a little more faith in your instincts. You wouldn't have made the choices and statements you did if you didn't believe them to be correct on a deeper level.

I think you did just fine. You made it clear that consequences are coming in the next time he does it. Some judges, possibly me too, might have nailed him on the intentional use that second time. That'd be fine, too, because at Regular we don't have things strictly coded, and so there will be slight difference in our handlings.

The key is to act definitively and clearly. And if you do give that one last warning, then blast him on the next offense. Never, nevre, NEVER say “This is your last chance” if you don't mean it.

So, yeah, if you think he understood your meaning there, then you did great.

As an aside, at Comp I would have USC - Minor on the first offense, and then a USC - Major on the repeated intentional offence. Then, if I didn't think he understood, I'd boot him. But if he agreed like you say by saying “OK”, I'd probably let him stay. Note that if directed it originally AT a person or specifically because he was trying to injure a person's feelings, then I'd begin with USC - Major. But, that's for Comp.

-Eric Shukan
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannes Bernsdorf
To: eshukan@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Player uses a slur to describe a card (Regular REL)


The same thing happened to me about two weeks ago when I was judging my very first FNM at my local game store because our local judge couldn't make it that day.

During Draft I was playing against a player who is not of the nicest kind. On his turn, he untaps, draws, looks at the card, then at the board and says: “Man, that's really gay!”. He said that in a manner that made some other people at the store glance over at what was happening.

I then explained to the player that using slurs like that really isn't okay nor cool in any way. The player next to me said he felt offended by that use of language. I also explained to the player how that use of language would probably result in a stern penalty at a Competitive event. (Although he should've already known that since he played at at least one Competitive REL event.)

When I was finished, he looked down at his card, then back up to me, thought for a second and then said: “Yeah, you're right. Saying ‘That’s gay' is totally retarded.” (It sounded a bit more offensive in German.)

In a very calm manner I then told the guy: “Listen. I am telling you this as a judge now. If I ever hear you using that kind of language ever again in here, there will be consequences. Please confirm to me that you will keep this in mind.” His mumbled “Okay” was barely audible. We kept on playing.

Afterwards I was asking myself if I did the right thing in that situation. Would it have been better if I had removed the player from the table for that talk? In the moment it happened I was really perplexed, to say the least. The talk I had with him was really short and to the point. I didn't want to draw too much attention to the whole thing right as it happened, so I tried to keep it as “casual” as possible - but maybe that only works for some players. Although I'm sure the player in question will now probably think twice before letting out something like that at our game store.

Any advise on what I could've done better to resolve that situation?

—————————
If you want to respond to this thread, simply reply to this email. Or view and respond to this message on the web at http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/post/85547/

Disable all notifications for this topic: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/13290/
Receive on-site notifications only for this topic: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/13290/?onsite=yes

You can change your email notification settings at http://apps.magicjudges.org/notifications/settings/

The use of the word “gay” as a perjorative started happening at my LGS a few years ago. This town has a significant gay community. Thus I felt obligated to make that stop.

I consulted with the store owner. He wasn't comfortable with it either. I asked if I could act and he said, “Please do.”

Normally, I was judging in my usual Hawaiian shirt so they knew I meant business when I showed up one night in The Uniform (DCI judge shirt and black from head to toe).

I sat the entire group of players down before round one and said the following:

“The use of the word ”gay“ as a perjorative (as in ”Well, that's gay!“) will stop right now. There is a significant gay community in Oberlin. They should be as welcome to play here as you are. If I hear it again, I will issue penalties. Any questions? No? Round one pairings are posted.”

I had to glare menacingly at a couple of people who made slips that night, but that was the end of it.

The store was better for it.

Just my two cents worth.

Will Colley
L2, Oberlin, OH
—– Original Message —–
From: Daniel Pareja
To: wcc3@cs.oberlin.edu
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:02 PM
Subject: Player uses a slur to describe a card (Regular REL)


So this came up at a Modern event I was playing last night and I'm wondering if I should have called a judge here.

It's game two; I'm up a game. It's the start of my main phase. My opponent controls a tapped Sacred Foundry, a tapped Clifftop Retreat and a tapped Plains. I control two Watery Graves. I play a Ghost Quarter and immediately sacrifice it to destroy my opponent's Foundry. My opponent finds a Mountain. After that resolves, I play Trapmaker's Snare to bring Archive Trap to my hand, then play that Trap and a second that I already had in hand. While peeling cards off the deck for the second Trap, my opponent describes Archive Trap as “gay”.

Should I call a judge at this? What would the call be?

(I had also done something similar in the first game, where in response to my opponent activating an Arid Mesa I had played Trapmaker's Snare, and played the Archive Trap I found with it after the Mesa's ability resolved.)


——————————————————————————–
If you want to respond to this thread, simply reply to this email. Or view and respond to this message on the web at http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/post/85497/

Disable all notifications for this topic: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/13290/
Receive on-site notifications only for this topic: http://apps.magicjudges.org/forum/noemail/13290/?onsite=yes

You can change your email notification settings at http://apps.magicjudges.org/notifications/settings/