Welcome back, to another scenario in which we all say “geez, what players won't do…”, and then we figure out what we'd do! This week we have a Silver level scenario, which means that uncertified judges and newer L1s are encouraged to answer right away, but others should wait until … oh, let's say “after YOUR FNM”.

Click here to view the blog post version!

In a Vintage event run at Competitive REL, you're called to a table by Noxious. He tells you that Ashamed just put a card in his hand when resolving Vampiric Tutor! When you ask Ashamed, he explains, “Well, a couple turns ago, I cast Demonic Tutor, and I guess I just got mixed up on Vampiric Tutor.” You notice that there's only one card in Ashamed's hand, and you confirm that his hand was empty once Vampiric Tutor went on the stack. You believe this was an honest mistake. What do you do?

I'm going to say that this is DEC, with a downgrade to a warning since the card was placed into an empty hand and the problem fixed with minimum disruption. I'd want to make sure that he still lost the 2 life and didn't act like his whole card was a Demonic Tutor. But with the scenario as written, I'd return the single card in Ashamed's hand to the top of the library where it belongs. I'd also instruct Ashamed that he should play more carefully and if the card had gone his hand with other cards this would be a game loss rather than a warning.

Originally posted by IPG 2.3:

If the identity of the card was known to all players before being placed into the hand, or was
placed into an empty hand, and the card can be returned to the correct zone with minimal disruption, do so and
downgrade the penalty to a Warning.

I foresee some people feeling that this is an GRV a la Brainstorm. However, the card for Vampiric Tutor was never in Ashamed's hand and therefore is improperly drawn rather than not replaced to the library. This makes it a DEC rather than a GRV.

First of all we would want to make sure that he did in fact lose the life from the resolution of the spell, as if he thought it were in fact a Demonic Tutor he would not have lost life.

Per the recent IPG updates, I am going to say it is DEC with downgrade to warning, because of the fact that it was placed into an empty hand as per the IPG;

If the identity of the card was known to all players before being placed into the hand, or was
placed into an empty hand, and the card can be returned to the correct zone with minimal disruption, do so and
downgrade the penalty to a Warning.

Thus the penalty would be a warning, however we would want to inform Ashamed to play more carefully in the future and if it had've gone to a hand that had other cards in it it would have rather been a game loss.

We would also return the card in the hand to the top of the library as per the resolution of Vampiric Tutor in order to have the spell resolve correctly and in the intended way.

Before reading other responses:

Ashamed has put a card in his hand, when no game rule instructed him to do so. Ashamed has committed GRV-DEC. Normally this would carry a game loss, but because the card was put into an empty hand, we can safely fix the situation by putting the card in the correct zone (the top of the library), and downgrading to a Warning.

Noxious called us right away, and has not committed any infraction.

Remind Ashamed to play carefully, and continue the game. This probably won't require a time extension.

After reading other responses:

It's also worth making sure the rest of the spell resolved correctly, and Ashamed lost two life.

(I apologize if I'm not a newer-enough L1 to be answering today, instead of after Friday)

Before reading other responses.

Ashamed has committed a clear case of GPE:DEC. because it is easy to see what the card was with minimal disruption to the game (his only card in hand), it can be returned to the appropriate zone, and the infraction can get downgraded to a warning. Remind Ashamed to be more careful in the future, and make sure he also lost the life from Vampiric tutor (Demonic tutor doesn't come with a loss of life).

if Ashamed did not loose life, then change the life accordingly. this is normally a GPE:GRV, but because it has the same root cause as the GPE:DEC (thinking the card was one card, and not another), do not issue an additional warning for GRV, but again, remind him to be more careful.

Noxious did not commit any infraction.

The reason why i choose a warning for GPE:DEC rather than a warning for GPE:GRV is because GPE:DEC is the more severe penalty (gameloss downgraded to a warning.).

Edited Jesse Watts (Oct. 22, 2014 08:00:35 PM)

Just a clarifying question : I thought silver was for all L1s while bronze was for newer L1s and candidates. The template on who should respond is exactly like the last bronze scenario and different from most silvers. So is this silver or bronze?

Slight bit of typing deficiency, my apologies. It is, in fact, Silver and thus open to L1s of any sort.<a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a>

Ashamed has committed GPE - DEC. Ordinarily the penalty for this would be a Game Loss. Since the card was drawn into an empty hand and we can return the card to the appropriate zone (the top of the library) without disrupting the game, we can downgrade the penalty to a Warning and place the card to the top of Ashamed's library. We should confirm that the players both have marked a loss of 2 life for Vampiric Tutor.

There is no infraction for Noxious.

No infraction for Noxious because the error was caught right away.

Ashamed receives a Game Loss for Drawing Extra Cards, but this can be downgraded to a Warning since Ashamed's hand was empty before the extra card was put into his hand and thus it is not too disruptive to fix the situation. We should ensure that both players marked the 2 life lost for Vampiric Tutor.

Should we also investigate further since Demonic Tutor is on the restricted list? No player should have more than one copy in their deck so they should not be getting tripped up on it because they cast a different card a few turns back, like they might in a different format. Or am I just looking into that too much?

GPE-DEC, we have the option to downgrade and I believe we should in this case, warning for him, no penalty for the other player, and obviously take the time to admire the alters/pimp-ness of the players decks, because sanctioned vintage.

Originally posted by Michael Caddell:

Should we also investigate further since Demonic Tutor is on the restricted list? No player should have more than one copy in their deck so they should not be getting tripped up on it because they cast a different card a few turns back, like they might in a different format. Or am I just looking into that too much?

This is a great point. In case this wasn't a KP scenario, where we assume that the investigation has already ruled out cheating, this situation would require a very serious talk with the player.

Originally posted by Michael Caddell:

Or am I just looking into that too much?

Yes. :)

Originally posted by Marc DeArmond:

DEC, with a downgrade to a warning

Im glad others are going with this too.

DEC, downgrade to Warning for uniquely identifiable. Put the card on top of the deck.

As my knowledge pool in my head tells me, and before reading other responses:

Ashamed committed a Game Rule Violation - Drawing Extra Cards. Since the card could be indentified as the only in his hand, we could finish to resolve the spell properly and downgrade Ashamed's penalty. Noxious should not take GRV - Failure to Maintain Game State since he couldn't possibly make Ashamed not do what he did, as it was a fast action.

After reading other responses:
Make sure that he lost the 2 life would need to be done as well.