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Tournament Operations » Post: Logistics of Grand Melee

Logistics of Grand Melee

Nov. 10, 2014 01:33:18 PM

William Seymour
Judge (Uncertified)

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Logistics of Grand Melee

Hi,

I'm HJing a grand melee event soon, and after reading Lexie's tournament report from GenCon I'm eager to know if anyone has any other wisdom to share regarding the logistics of this rather … unique format :) Potential pitfalls are another thing it would be good to know in advance if anyone has some experience with this.

Thanks,
Will

Nov. 10, 2014 09:21:43 PM

Philip Ockelmann
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer, IJP Temporary Regional Advisor

German-speaking countries

Logistics of Grand Melee

I have only judged one of those, which only had 9 players (since I did bet the public events HJ that there's no way it would fire anyways…), but here goes:

Use Turn markers. Seriously. Players WILL mess it up. Especially when there's an odd number of players (left).
Explain spellranges. Then explain it again. Then ask if they all understood it.
Make sure to define clearly who ‘kills’ a player (if prices are given out based on head-count) to prevent discussion in the end.
Put even more emphasis on communication. Chances are players won't even be able to see everything that happens within their range of influence. Also, since multiple turns are beeing taken simultatiously by multiple players, it is very important that everyone knows where the game is right now, especially if a player is in the influence-range of two active players (You don't want A to be attacking, A+2 casting Aetherspouts, and A+4 (also beeing active) still beeing in Main 1, as he too would be affected by the Aetherspouts).

And most importantly: Have Fun. This is about as casual as casual gets….so make sure that you and the players have fun.

Good luck!

Nov. 10, 2014 09:36:47 PM

Shawn Doherty
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Midatlantic

Logistics of Grand Melee

The format wasn't stated, but I *highly* encourage a Limited format for any Grand Melee event. Constructed formats allow for too many chances as people “breaking” the format and making it not very much fun. Sealed is easiest, but you can draft as well.

Nov. 11, 2014 02:02:37 AM

Kenji Suzuki
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

Japan

Logistics of Grand Melee

I recommend this: use BIG turn marker, such as hat with bright color. We once used Christmas hats.
Players can easily understand who has thier turn, and what is going to happen.
Judges can easily understand which part of ring is stalling or having trouble.
… and it is fun to watch hats moving around :)

Nov. 12, 2014 05:24:06 PM

Yuki Takekawa
Judge (Level 3 (International Judge Program))

Japan

Logistics of Grand Melee

I have only judged one of those, which had 60 over players at GP Shizuoka's side event in 2013.
(Then Head Judge is Jin Arai.)

I recommend this:Announce for Plyars.
becouse players soften moved for sit close.
Playmat helped keeping game situation.

Nov. 12, 2014 05:29:43 PM

Topher Hickman
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Midatlantic

Logistics of Grand Melee

Originally posted by Shawn Doherty:

Sealed is easiest, but you can draft as well.
For my next Richmond Area Judge Celebration, I'll be doing both in a hybrid. Players will open three packs, then draft three Conspiracy packs, build, and then begin the Melee! :cool:

Nov. 12, 2014 10:41:59 PM

Lexie Steele
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper

USA - Great Lakes

Logistics of Grand Melee

I'm just going to stress ONE thing:

Make sure you KNOW when someone is eliminated. As soon as your number is off, things get weird with the Turn Markers. Don't be afraid to double or triple check to make sure you know how many people are still playing.

This format is a blast, I hope you enjoy judging it. :P

Nov. 13, 2014 04:56:41 AM

Jin Arai
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

Japan

Logistics of Grand Melee

大乱闘戦について、過去の経験をいくつか紹介致します。

(誰か優しい人が、英訳してくれるのを期待します。)

・机の配置
 公式では、机の配置について、四角くロの字でレイアウトする事を提案していますが、私は細長く一本のレイアウトの方が良いと考えます。
なぜなら、あるアクティブプレイヤーが面白いプレイングを行った時に、その両隣のプレイヤーに加えて、向かいのプレイヤーも見られるようになるからです。
(結構待ち時間が多いので、退屈させない為にも他のプレイを見れるようにした方が望ましいです)
ただ、机を完全に1本にしてしまうと、他のプレイヤーが移動する時に大変なので、机を並べる時に机と机の間を30センチくらいスキマを(ギリギリ通れて、隣のプレイヤーのクリーチャーが何か判別出来るくらい)空けましょう。

・ジャッジ手配
 参加者20名以下なら、一人で大丈夫です。それから20人毎に1人、ジャッジが居るべきです。
 ルールについて聞かれる事もさることながら、プレイヤーの現在の人数を正確に把握するのに人数が必要です。

・事前アナウンス
 もう言われていますが「参加プレイヤーは、必ずプレイマットを使って下さい」と事前にアナウンスすべきです。このゲームは席の移動を頻繁に行います。
ですので、戦場の土地やクリーチャーをそのままの状態で動かすのに、プレイマットを使うべきです。

・ルールの説明
 GP神戸2014の時の大乱闘戦について、プレイヤーが分かり辛いルールについて、Webで紹介してもらいました。(ありがとう 中村さん! 伊藤さん!)
http://www.bigmagic.net/gpkobe2014/dairantou.html
 迷路の終わりで勝利条件が成立しても、毎ターン2人しか負けてくれないのは事前にアナウンスしても良いかもしれません。

・ターンマーカー
 ターンマーカーですが、机の上に何か物を置くのは、正直分かり辛いです。
他のプレイヤーに分かり辛いという事は、自分の前に置かれた時には邪魔、という事です。
 ですので、ターンマーカーは帽子のような被る物をお勧めします。GP静岡2013の時はクリスマスシーズンでしたのでターンマーカーはサンタ帽を被ってもらいました。GP神戸2014の時は真夏でしたので麦わら帽子でした。
(何人かのプレイヤーは、「海賊王にオレはなる!」と言っていましたね)
 パーティー用の紙製の三角帽子やカツラなど、目立つものを探してみて下さい。

 公式では、ターンマーカーに番号を付けるように言われていますが、ちゃんとプレイヤー人数を管理していれば、同時にターンマーカーを2つ取り除くような事は、ほぼありませんので付けなくても大丈夫かと思います。どうしても気になるなら1番だけ分かるようにすれば良いでしょう。

・プレイヤー人数管理
「人数管理は、ヘッドジャッジの最も重要な仕事です」
 ターンマーカーが本来13個で良い筈が、14個ある場合。100%渋滞が起きています。プレイ出来ないまま十何分も待たされるのは、プレイヤーにとって苦痛です。13個のはずが12個しかない、の方が進行がスムーズな分、まだ望ましいと思います。

 プレイヤーが現在何人で、ターンマーカーをいつ減らせばいいのか、私は管理表を作成しました。最低限、誰が負けて、誰が倒して、ターンマーカーを取り除いていいかどうか管理して下さい。(excelファイルをアップするにはどうすればいいのでしょう?)
(あるプレイヤーが5人倒した時に、私は「撃墜王(エース)が出ました!」とアナウンスしました。
 そうすると、エース狙いで積極的に他のプレイヤーを倒しに行くプレイヤーが増えるので、進行がスムーズになります)

・残り7人
 残り7人になり、ターンマーカーが1つになると、「参加者7名の統率者戦」に化けます。
 ここから政治力や交渉力やカリスマも関係してきますが。「途端に進行が遅くなるので、スムーズにプレイするようプレイヤーに積極的に声をかけましょう」

・最後に
 残念ながら、私は構築戦の大乱闘戦しかHJの経験がありません。リミテッドの大乱闘戦がどのようなゲームになるのか、ライブラリアウト負けがどれくらい発生するのか、教えて頂ければ幸いです。
(大乱闘戦ブースタードラフトが、どれくらい下らないゲームになるのか、誰か試して貰えないでしょうか?)

Nov. 13, 2014 07:34:52 AM

Katsuhisa Kanazawa
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program)), Scorekeeper

Japan

Logistics of Grand Melee

Note: Jin Arai is most expert on Grand Melee format in Japan judge community. He did HJ the event with Yuki Takekawa at GP side event. Here is rough translation of his post. (please excuse my translation - Katsuhisa)


Here is tips from my past experience from Japan GP side event.

Table layout:
Official site recommend to have square table layout, but I prefer to have one single sneak line layout. Because if one player did something interest, not only his/her neighbor, but opposite seat player can see the play. This format takes long time, so let have fun for waiting time. You need to have narrow gap between tables to make player can walk for smooth move.

Judges:
I think one judge per 20 players is best ratio. Because it needs to manage number of current active players accurate, and lots of interaction ruling inquiry from players.

Announce for player requirement:
I strongly recommend to ask “Use playmat”. This format will require frequent seat change, so moving his/her board with playmat is kinda mandatory to me.

Advance announcement for rule:
It is good to introduce the difference/unfamiliar point of multiplayer game rule in advance. ( Nakamura-san/Ito-san announced such the point in web site for GP Kobe 2014. Thanks! ) Especially, it is good to announce only two player per turn will lose game by winning condition met Maze's End.

Turn marker:
I don't recommend to place turn marker on the table. It is often hard to see by others, and very annoying when it placed in front of you ! So, I recommend to use hat as explained by Kenji. Any highly visible hat works such as party hat. In fact, we used Santa's cap at GP Shizuoka 2013 because of Xmas season. Then straw hat at GP Kobe 2014 because it was summer. ( Few players commented “I will become king of pirates !” :) )

If judges manages number of players correctly, I believe we don't need to put number on the marker because it is rare to remove two marker at once. Though you may have only number ONE marker if you mind the top marker.

Managing number of players:
It is most importance task for HJ. If there is extra marker, such as 14 exists instead of 13 precisely, it surely sign of jam somewhere. It is very pain for players to wait more than 10 min with nothing he/she can do, so less (12 for the case) is better than more for making game move.

I recommend to have a check sheet to track player count, when remove a turn marker. I believe: who lost, who beat him/her, what condition to remove marker is minimum to know by HJ. If you contact me, I can send you my Excel check sheet.

Also, I announced “We have a ACE (striker) now” when a player smashed off 5 players. It is fun and motivate players to win, so game will move on quickly.

Last seven:
When player reduced to 7, only one turn marker remained. I think now game changed to Commander by 7 players. Hence it increases negotiation between other players more, so turn move is getting slow down. So keep asking player to play smoothly.

That's all. I only HJ'ing construction format only, so I would like to know how differ/same with the sealed format and how often library out occur. (Anyone tried Grand Melee booster draft yet ?)

Nov. 13, 2014 09:53:01 PM

Annika Short
Judge (Uncertified), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

USA - Great Lakes

Logistics of Grand Melee

I've been judging at GenCon for 10 years, so I've run quite a few Grand
Melees, and here's my advice:

The number one biggest complaint from all players at any Grand Melee event
is that they get upset when a turn marker disappears just before it got to
them. They WILL feel like they just were cheated out of their turn. Make
sure that you understand the rules for removing turn markers so that you
get it right, and make sure you explain the process (and consequences) to
the players thoroughly before play begins.

As mentioned before, DO NOT run any sort of constructed event as Grand
Melee. Certain decks and archetypes can grind a game to a halt. That isn't
horrible in a 1v1 game, but when 80 people are all waiting on one guy to
finish it becomes a real issue. Stick to limited formats and you should be
fine. Well, stick to limited formats that don't involve New Phyrexia. Karn
Liberated has severe rules issues in Grand Melee that you REALLY don't want
to deal with.

If you are awarding prizes per elimination, that's great. It keeps players
invested in moving the game forward which helps immensely. Just know that
there will be some ambiguous situations come up where you may need to
decide who gets credit for the elimination: a player may deck out after
being milled, a player may naturally deck out from a long game filled with
draw spells, a player may scoop, a player may hit themselves with a burn
spell to finish themselves off. Make sure you have a plan for how to treat
these, and let players know before the game begins. You don't want players
to feel blindsided if things don't turn out how they expected.

Know going in that players will make alliances. They will make partnerships
where they won't attack each other or even build decks designed to boost
each other. By the end of the event, this will really bog things down. If
it gets too stagnant, you may have to find ways to encourage players to
start eliminating people. This could be as easy as having a few extra
prizes available that could be used as incentives for the next kill once
things get slow.

Finally, strange rules issues may happen. It's a tricky format, and the
rules weren't really written with it in mind. Just use your best judgment
and be consistent throughout the event.

Nick Short
L2
Chicago, IL, USA

Nov. 19, 2014 12:33:45 AM

William Seymour
Judge (Uncertified)

United Kingdom, Ireland, and South Africa

Logistics of Grand Melee

Thanks a lot for all the replies - they really allowed me to go into this feeling way more prepared than I expected. Unfortunately there weren't enough sign ups at GP Madrid for the event to fire. That said, I may well run one of these soon locally.