After a month on hiatus in the Regular REL forums, Personal Tutor is back home. Welcome to this month's installment, where we'll discuss how to maximize our opportunities for player education. Our goal is to transcend the basic answer to create an informative answer that the players will really remember and teaches them something about the rules, rather than just resolving this ruling. You may even find this process helps you come to a better understanding of the rules yourself.

The Scenario:
Cormorant and Xenops are playing in a Kahns sealed PTQ. Cormorant calls for a judge and asks to speak to you away from the table. "So, Xenops has an Ashcloud Phoenix. If I kill it with Burn Away, it gets exiled before it can come back, right?"

The Basic Answer:
It depends.

You may notice that Cormorant and Xenops don't follow our usual A & N naming convention. This may be intentional. Players don't always tell you everything you need to know. How does this lack of information affect your reaction? Will you ask additional questions, is entirely irrelevant, or is your response agnostic to whose turn it is? What is the best way to deliver a concise, educational answer?

L1s and Judge Candidates, feel free to give your answers immediately. L2s, please wait a day to add your input. L3+, please wait two days.

I would first ask who's turn it currently is. I would then explain that it would only work their opponents turn, and explain how APNAP order works with triggered abilities and the stack.

- Chaim Weinberg, Judge Candidate and Rules Advisor

Edited Chaim Weinberg (Nov. 20, 2014 09:52:07 PM)

I'm going to pretend you took the opportunity to use simple names. Okay, fine, sorry.

Any answer beyond “I don't have enough information to answer that question” has the potential to stray into coaching territory, but I'll try to go more in-depth while staying on the good side of that fine line.

"Well, Steve Cormorant, both the Phoenix and Burn away create triggers— the reanimate trigger, and the exile trigger. These will go on the stack in the order of Active Player first, Nonactive Player second. Since the stack resolves “first in, last out”, the Nonactive Player's trigger will resolve first, then the Active Player's. Are there any other questions I can answer?“

This explains the relevant rules interactions, while still requiring the player to make a leap of understanding to figure out when to play his card. I feel like directly saying ”yes, but only on your opponent's turn" goes too far. Players are entitled to all of the rules of the game (and tournament), but not how to correctly use those rules to their advantage— that's for them to figure out on their own.

Edited Tara Wright (Nov. 20, 2014 11:05:13 PM)

Well, Xenops, the important thing to remember here is that triggered abilities that happen at the same time are put on the stack in active player non-active player order, and since both of these abilities are triggered abilities, it would matter who's turn it is, as the stack resolves in a last-in, first-out order.

I am glad you asked this question. I don't know how I would have answered this question. Now that I have had time to think about it I would answer much like David.

I would Reply,
“Both the Phoenix and Burn away will create triggers, Active players will go on the stack first then Non-Active players”



“will” added

Edited Clynn Wilkinson (Nov. 21, 2014 10:29:59 AM)

I would answer like this
“It depends on whose turn it is. When two triggers are placed on the stack simultaneously they are put in active player-non active player order. The stack then resolves ”first in, last out“. The active player is the person who's turn it is.”

This explains to Cormorant how simultaneous triggers work as well as what actually being the active player is. It's possible that I shouldn't include the last part and just let him figure it out who's who himself or wait till he asks me.

I still don't like telling our player that it depends on whose turn it is. Let me illustrate:

“Judge!”
“Yes?”
“So, he has that phoenix and I have this spell. I know there's some kind of ‘active player first’ type thing here— whose turn do I cast this on to make sure the bird stays gone?”

That sounds a lot like a strategy question to me, but that's exactly the question we're answering when we say “on your opponent's turn”, or even “ it depends whose turn it is”.

That said, I would offer the following lifeline when explaining apnap ordering: “do you know what I mean by ‘active player’?”

Edited Tara Wright (Nov. 22, 2014 05:28:40 AM)

But that's not the question being asked in the scenario. I would agree that if he asked that it could be coaching. however in the original scenario he's asking a simple rules question “If I kill it with Burn Away, it gets exiled before it can come back, right?”. The key thing is here is he's not asking what to do he is asking “do I have the interaction correct”. I don't even say when he has to cast it, I'm just explaining that it's dependant on whose turn it is (which answers his rules question) then offering an explanation on why.

Hey, folks - just a reminder that you should resist the temptation to alter the scenario - it tends to lead to confusion as people respond to different prompts.

Thanks, and back to the discussion!

My apologies, you're both correct.

Anyway, seems like we mostly agree, except on one point. Interested to hear what others have to say.

I like to use a visual cue when I explain the stack: “Active player's triggers go on the stack first (holding out a hand palm down) and non-active player's triggers go on top of them (other hand palm down above the first hand). The stack resolves from the top down.” In my experience programmers understand First In Last Out but everyone else nods while looking blank.

Thumbs up to David's answer. Agreed.

I received this question at a feature match win-and-in match at a Teams tournament in Melbourne a week ago. Sadly I choked and couldn't come up with a non-coaching answer. I stuck with “it depends”, and the player went through with it anyway.

I still don't know if flat-out explaining that it depends whose turn it is crosses into coaching territory, but there has to be more than “it depends”. David's wording seems to sound right in my books, but I'm still unsure if it crosses the line.

Time to close the book on this scenario. The Personal Tutor suggested answer is:

Both Ashcloud Phoenix and Burn Away have abilities that trigger when the Phoenix dies. The active player puts his trigger on the stack first. Then the non-active player puts his trigger on the stack above it.

The main things we want to explain here are:
1. Both of these abilities are triggered. It may seem trivial, but it is not obvious to many players that a spell can have a triggered ability.
2. Triggers always go on the stack in AP/NAP order. To avoid coaching, keep the answer focused on the rules, not the cards. We want to avoid telling Cormorant things like “So, on your turn the Phoenix will return.” If the player appears confused by that, you can add something like Martha's demonstration of how the stack works.

The primary lesson of this scenario, however, is not in the answer itself. Instead, it is that sometimes the best way to answer a question is not to answer it at all. Cormorant wants to know if the Phoenix will be exiled, but the best answer does not directly include this information. You don't even have to know it to give the best answer.

So, when you get a question, take a moment. Think about what was asked. Then think about what that means the player doesn't know or is confused about. Then address the fundamental issue, even if that means sidestepping the original question.

If you recently answered a player question that you think would make a great Personal Tutor scenario, or would like to join the Personal Tutor team, please send me an email via the forums.

And until next time, maximize your opportunities for education!