Hi everyone!

During a Vintage Tournament player A, resolving the ability of a Memory Jar, confused it for a Timetwister and shuffle back his graveyard into his library. Considering that he didn't do it willingly (no cheating), how would you handle this situation? Infraction? Penalty? Fix?
Take into account that both players werent' able to remember all cards in that graveyard.

Thanks for your answers :D

J.

The infraction and penalty are a standard GRV - Warning. The player simply performed an action that he wasn't supposed to do. Since the two players cannot recall what cards were in the graveyard (except for Memory Jar, of course) there is no relevant fix other than putting Memory Jar into the graveyard where it belongs, assuming that the jar was also shuffled into the library.

Edited Peter Richmond (Dec. 10, 2014 12:16:06 AM)

Jus for the sake of discussion (MUAHAHAHA), Peter, you suggest finding the Memory Jar in the library and putting it in the graveyard since that’s where it should be. If both players remember and agree on a few of the cards that were on the graveyard before the shuffling, would you find those too?

Originally posted by Federico Donner:

Jus for the sake of discussion (MUAHAHAHA)

Oh, Federico, you know how to appeal to my tastes! xD

In this case, we want to apply an all-or-nothing style of fix. Memory Jar itself gets a special exception as a partial fix of sorts, since it was supposed to be placed into the graveyard, not the library. (Arguably, it could be noted that it may have been put into the GY, THEN the library, so I am more than willing to hear about your thoughts on that).

Other than that, I am not immediately inclined to do so.

Edited Peter Richmond (Dec. 10, 2014 05:13:28 AM)

I am a sucker for either full backup or keep the gamestate as it is. The exceptions on the GRV fix don’t really apply:

- If a player made an illegal choice or failed to make a required choice for a permanent on the battlefield, that player makes a legal choice.
- If a player forgot to draw cards, discard cards, or return cards from their hand to another zone, that player does so.
- If an object changing zones is put into the wrong zone, the identity of the object was known to all players, and it can be moved without disrupting the state of the game, put the object in the correct zone.

Even if the Jar is shuffled on the library right now, presumably it was put on the graveyard as part of the cost and then shuffled in as part of the resolution, so the object was put into the wrong zone but not “as it was changing zones” so I don’t think the partial fix applies there.

I would either backup completely (only if both players agree on the full contents of the graveyard) or leave the gamestate as is with everything shuffled on the library. Although putting at least one card where it should be sounds like “at least we’re doing *something*”, I would personally lean in favor of consistency.

Sounds like a solid enough counterargument for me. :)

Thank you for your answers :D