Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

Competitive REL » Post: cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

Dec. 4, 2014 11:22:59 AM

Jorge Almeida
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

Iberia

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

Hello everybody!

In a Competitive tournament. A player ask to judge.
player - I can remind triggered abilities to my friend?
judge - No, This is outside assistance.
player - that sanction is this?
Judge - Match loss.

The player drop from the event, and the player remembers his friend a triggered ability when he forgets.
What is your ruling?

Dec. 4, 2014 11:29:58 AM

Dan Collins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry)), Scorekeeper

USA - Northeast

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

The spectator who did this thing did not stand to gain advantage from it, and therefore cannot have been cheating. However…

He did know the rules about outside assistance and clearly broke them on purpose, and doing this has been extremely disruptive to the tournament. This spectator should be re-entered into the tournament, issued a match loss, and then dropped a second time. I would recommend to the TO that this spectator be ejected from the venue, and if the TO doesn't agree, at minimum the spectator should be given a direct instruction not to spectate this friend's match any more today. Further, this spectator's name and DCI number should be recorded and perhaps they should be allowed to make a statement, as I would report this sort of ‘cheating-by-proxy’ to the Investigations Committee for potential follow-up.

Dec. 4, 2014 11:32:18 AM

Jona Bemindt
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy))

BeNeLux

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

The player did something that was illegal in the game
The player gained an advantage (actually his friend did, but that is besides the point)
The player did this knowingly

=> I would rule Unsporting Conduct: Cheating

Dec. 4, 2014 11:35:57 AM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

While the player/spectator wasn't likely to gain a direct advantage, he was still seeking advantage (for his friend). DQ, and ask him to wait for his friend outside the venue.

Keep in mind, they might have had a prize split arrangement, so he could have been seeking personal advantage - but regardless, his motivation was clear, and he believed there was something to be gained through his actions.

d:^D

Dec. 4, 2014 11:39:34 AM

Markus Dietrich
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

German-speaking countries

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

The question here is whether the spectator gained an advantage, but I think this can be answered with yes. Maybe the two made a deal about sharing prizes, but I think even if the player only owes something to the spectator, this is advantage enough to justify cheating. You could also ask why the spectator helps the player if he wouldn't gain an advantage from it

Dec. 4, 2014 11:42:47 AM

Joaquín Pérez
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program)), Tournament Organizer

Iberia

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

A person can win an advantage without being personally affected for it. He wants his friend to win, by illegal ways. This is his advantage here. And of course, he knows it's illegal.

USC-Cheating, DQed, and a report clearly stating that he has been warned against it and does it anyway, among other things :)

Dec. 7, 2014 10:52:43 PM

Daniel Chew
Judge (Level 1 (International Judge Program))

Southeast Asia

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

There was a scenario that was in the hats.

A friend of the player (not known and also only a spectator) purposely helped the opponent (whom he also knows scarcely) of his triggers, which resulted in the match loss to the opponent (weird) . No one knew until a few years down the road until it was mentioned by his good friend.

Let's hope nothing like this happens though.

Dec. 9, 2014 03:11:17 PM

Joaquín Ossandón
Judge (Level 2 (International Judge Program))

Hispanic America - South

cheating or not cheating, this is the cuestion

As an aditional aspect to point out, I would recommend (in the future) to be more clear with the explanaiton of OA. Saying “Match loss” can be missleading, and it would be a good instance of education saying that if the judge suspects the assitance was done knowingly and in order to gain an advantage to his friend, it is a DQ. If you don't have the time, you could say “from ML to DQ and investigation”; that would probably be enough to prevent this situations.

It remembers me a story about a guy at a draft who said “you can't DQ me for watching the cards selected by the other player, it's just the first time you see me doing it…”