Since the opponent couldn't verify that Gush at that point was legal, since it may not have been in hand, I see no other penalty for this than a game loss. Assuming no cheating, of course.

You need to be careful here with starting with the penalty first. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking this should be a game loss and then trying to fit the scenario into one of the infractions that has that penalty. We always need to start with determining what infraction this falls under. Also consider whether the opponent had a chance to catch this error before the cards were drawn. I also agree with what Sean said. This is a situation where you're going to have to do some investigation.

Originally posted by Christopher Wendelboe:

Since the opponent couldn't verify that Gush at that point was legal, since it may not have been in hand, I see no other penalty for this than a game loss.

We don't apply the Hidden Information upgrade just because they forgot to put the spell card on the stack.

The opponent does have the opportunity to notice that there's no Gush on the stack, and say something before the cards are drawn. We can easily back this up; set aside the two Islands and the Gush, put two other random cards on top of the Library, and put the Gush on the stack. Assuming the opponent didn't have a response, the Gush resolves, and those two randomly chosen cards end up back in hand.

d:^D

Setting aside the two Islands and Gush (or at minimum, setting aside Gush) make sense as the only reasonable thing to do while rewinding, but I don't understand how it's supported by policy.

In every other example I've seen of rewinding draws where the hand has known cards, the correct rewind is given as “return a random card from hand”, and setting aside the known card is explicitly called out as *not* something to do.

IPG:

To perform a backup, each individual action since the point of the
error is reversed, starting with the most recent
ones and working backwards. Every action must be reversed; no parts of the
sequence should be omitted or
reordered. If the identity of a card involved in reversing an action is
unknown to one of the players (usually because
it was drawn), a random card is chosen from the possible candidates. A
shuffle is reversed by shuffling again.

So, if the identity is not known, a random card is chosen FROM THE POSSIBLE
CANDIDATES. Cards that are known are not possible candidates, because we
know, that they are not the drawn cards.

2015-01-01 9:20 GMT+01:00 Talin Salway <