Greetings, Judges!
Welcome back to another exciting Knowledge Pool scenario. This week we have SILVER scenario, so L2+ judges should wait until Saturday before they reply.

The blog post can be found here.

Angus and Nathan are playing a Modern PPTQ where you are the only judge. Angus has conceded game 1 once Nathan resolved Splinter Twin on his Pestermite and was about to attack him with his army of minions.
Nathan keeps his opening hand while Angus is mulliganing to 6. After Angus announces mulligan to 5, Nathan puts his hand into his library and starts shuffling while he says “I'll mulligan because you are going to 5.” Angus calls you. After a short investigation you discard cheating.
What do you do?

Edited David Larrea (Aug. 21, 2015 08:50:13 AM)

This is GPE: Improper Drawing at Start of Game (it's even given as one of the examples in the IPG), and will result in a warning for Nathan.

From the Op it isn't clear if Nathan has drawn the new hand of 6 cards he was expecting from the mulligan. If he has I would remove one card at random from the new hand and shuffle that into Nathan's library - he will now have 5 cards and will be considered to have mulliganed with an option to continue doing so if he wishes. If he hasn't yet drawn 6 I would have him simply mulligan directly to 5.

Even though Angus should be the one to say if he keeps or mulligans first (as he lost Game 1), I would be inclined to give a GPE-ID@SOG = Warning to Nathan. We let him draw 6 cards, then remove one at random and shuffle it into his library. He can take further mulligans as normal.

Before reading other answers:

As Nathan had already declared he was keeping, he can no longer take any further mulligans. This is a textbook example of GPE - Improper Drawing at Start of Game. (“… takes a mulligan after they are permitted to,”). Angus did not have an opportunity to stop this error, and has committed no infraction.

Nathan will receive a warning. To fix - this is a bit more interesting. The prescribed fix is to “remove a number of cards, equal to the excess plus one, from hand at random”. Once Nathan draws a new hand of 6 cards, there are no excess cards. So, we'll remove one card at random (down to 5 cards). On seeing this hand of 5, Nathan may choose to take additional mulligans, or keep. (and if he keeps, instruct him to *actually* keep it, this time). This fix and explanation should be quick enough that no time extension, or only a short one, is necessary.

After reading other answers:

Seems to be the consensus so far.

Dont forget as par the new mulligan rules he will have the opportunity
to scry 1?

Graham Theobalds

On 21/08/2015 20:06, Talin Salway wrote:

missed he had declared he would keep sorry

Graham Theobalds

On 21/08/2015 20:06, Talin Salway wrote:

Originally posted by Graham Theobalds:

Dont forget as par the new mulligan rules he will have the opportunity
to scry 1?

As of the moment, that isn't yet the rule. With no additional detail, knowledge pool scenarios assume we're using the current IPG/MTR/CR.

(If this PPTQ occurs after the release of Battle for Zendikar, then, under the new rule, after completing the mulligan procedure he illegally started, Nathan would have a chance to scry 1)

Edited Talin Salway (Aug. 21, 2015 10:51:32 PM)

Before Reading

It seems like Nathan committed a Game Play Error - Improper Drawing at Start of Game by mulliganing after he had already chosen to keep. The penalty is a warning for this infraction. The philosophy section in the IPG states we should remove an additional card from the cards Nathan will draw in his new starting hand. However, would that be any different that just having Nathan draw five cards instead of six and then shuffling one away? To me that seems like the quicker solution so that the players may continue the game sooner.

Angus should receive no penalty.

Ruling: GPE-IDaSoG for Nathan and a warning. Nathan will take a forced mulligan to five. No penalty for Angus.

After Reading

I had assumed Nathan had not yet drawn, hence my proposed fix. If he has already drawn six for some reason, a card should be selected at random and shuffled away. Other than that, everyone else seems to have come to the same ruling as me.

Edited Dustin Wilke (Aug. 23, 2015 12:20:58 AM)

Before Reading

Improper drawing at Start of Game. Issue a warning, let him resolve the mulligan and then take one additional card away.

After reading

Dustin Wilke's idea seems like a good one: I'd agree to say ‘have him draw 5’.

Originally posted by Lars Harald Nordli:

Even though Angus should be the one to say if he keeps or mulligans first (as he lost Game 1)

From the OP is seems to be this order, which means there's no issue with Angus' plays:

Angus > Mulligan to 6
Nathan > Keep
Angus > Mulligan to 5
Nathan > Oh I'll mulligan then…

Before Reviewing Comments:

Nathan has commited Improper Drawing at Start of Game. It is unclear by the scenario if Nathan has drawn his cards after choosing to mulligan. If Nathan has already drawn from his illegal mulligan we would shuffle the excess + one random cards back into his deck. In this scenario this would only be one card.

If Nathan has yet to draw for his mulligan, I would have him draw 6 cards and then shuffle one card back into the deck.

I will advised that he is able to then choose if he would like to mulligan further. I would briefly remind Nathan that once he has decided to keep his hand, that he is unable to choose to mulligan for the remainder of the game. This would earn Nathan a Warning.

I would provide an appropriate time extension for the time spent applying the fix and delivering the ruling.


After Reviewing Comments:

While I agree that Drawing 5 instead of Drawing 6 and shuffling on back is similar. I dont feel that this is a worthwilve deviation. This scenario does not feel like a significant or exceptional circumstance. The situation does already have applicable philosophy for guidance. I don't believe that the time saved is greater than providing consistent rulings and fixes to players.

Originally posted by Marc Shotter:

Lars Harald Nordli
Even though Angus should be the one to say if he keeps or mulligans first (as he lost Game 1)

From the OP is seems to be this order, which means there's no issue with Angus' plays:

Angus > Mulligan to 6
Nathan > Keep
Angus > Mulligan to 5
Nathan > Oh I'll mulligan then…

Right you are! :)

Originally posted by Jacob Kriner:

While I agree that Drawing 5 instead of Drawing 6 and shuffling on back is similar. I dont feel that this is a worthwilve deviation. This scenario does not feel like a significant or exceptional circumstance. The situation does already have applicable philosophy for guidance. I don't believe that the time saved is greater than providing consistent rulings and fixes to players.

I don't view this as a deviation, simply a shortcut, the end results are identical; a random 5 cards in Nathan's hand and a randomly ordered library.

I'd actually view the shortcut as a better customer service outcome, we save time and there's less of a feel bad. While logically there is no difference (assuming a proper shuffle), if you let a player see a 6 card hand including a key card, then randomly shuffle that card away they will feel they've lost something and imagine they are somehow less likely to draw it again (its just how the human brain works).

I think Dustin made good call there - if Nathan already drew 6 take one back and shuffle, if not, ask him to draw 5.

Originally posted by David Larrea:

Greetings, Judges!
Welcome back to another exciting Knowledge Pool scenario. This week we have SILVER scenario, so L2+ judges should wait until Saturday before they reply.

The blog post can be found here.

Angus and Nathan are playing a Modern PPTQ where you are the only judge. Angus has conceded game 1 once Nathan resolved Splinter Twin on his Pestermite and was about to attack him with his army of minions.
Nathan keeps his opening hand while Angus is mulliganing to 6. After Angus announces mulligan to 5, Nathan puts his hand into his library and starts shuffling while he says “I'll mulligan because you are going to 5.” Angus calls you. After a short investigation you discard cheating.
What do you do?

I think this is easily classified under Improper Draw at Start of Game. We have him finish shuffling, draw 5 (this would have been a mulligan to 6, but the fix is draw the correct number of cards minus 1 for this penalty).