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Competitive REL » Post: FTMGS IPG Question regarding failure to reveal

FTMGS IPG Question regarding failure to reveal

March 4, 2016 05:25:49 PM

Brett Schoppert
Judge (Uncertified), Tournament Organizer

USA - Plains

FTMGS IPG Question regarding failure to reveal

One of the examples from the Failure to Maintain Game State section of the IPG is as follows:

2.6 A player’s opponent forgets to reveal the card searched for by Worldly Tutor. It is not noticed until the end of turn

I was under the impression that failure to reveal falls under Hidden Card Error, and I believe that this is failure to reveal. Maybe this was not taken out in the IPG update, but I just want to make sure that I am interpreting this correctly.

Thanks!

March 4, 2016 05:36:36 PM

Paul Baranay
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Northeast

FTMGS IPG Question regarding failure to reveal

You're correct that, if I didn't reveal the card from Worldly Tutor, that would be an example of Hidden Card Error. However, that line in the IPG is referring to the infraction that my opponent should receive for not pointing out my error.

P.S. The card was Bear Cub. ;)

Edited Paul Baranay (March 4, 2016 05:47:34 PM)

March 4, 2016 05:46:25 PM

Paul Baranay
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 5 (Judge Foundry))

USA - Northeast

FTMGS IPG Question regarding failure to reveal

Sorry, I actually misspoke. This situation is GRV, not HCE. The error can be corrected with publicly available information (the top of my library is public, or at least “public enough” for this purpose – I can just flip it over when the error is pointed out).

And to pre-empt the obvious follow-up: it's still a GRV even if I draw the top card, since the definition of HCE tells us, “Be careful not to apply this infraction in situations where a publicly-correctable error subsequently leads to an uncorrectable situation. In these situations, the root cause should be penalized and that remedy applied.”

This is a nice opportunity to mention something I was thinking of saying earlier, which is that mental shortcuts like “oh, this used to be Failure to Reveal, so it must be Hidden Card Error” are quite dangerous. Hidden Card Error is Hidden Card Error. It has a specific definition, and we should use that as our guide as much as possible. :)

March 4, 2016 07:23:06 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 4 (Judge Foundry)), Hall of Fame

USA - Southwest

FTMGS IPG Question regarding failure to reveal

A big thumbs up (bear paw up?) to Paul's second post!

d:^D

March 17, 2016 09:42:49 PM

Brett Schoppert
Judge (Uncertified), Tournament Organizer

USA - Plains

FTMGS IPG Question regarding failure to reveal

Thanks for the response

I realized that it was for the opponent, but I was thinking that FTMGS was only for when the opponent doesn't point out a GRV. After looking back, I can see that it is for not pointing out any GPE. Thanks for the heads up on the mental shortcut issue, I will be sure to keep that in mind. I also now understand why that is a GRV.