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Tournament Operations » Post: Judge shirt at regular rel

Judge shirt at regular rel

June 2, 2016 08:51:12 PM

Robert Langmaid
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper, Tournament Organizer

Canada

Judge shirt at regular rel

I just read a question about judge attire on the judge reddit and it caused me to wonder about this. Is it allowed to wear your judge attire at a regular rel event where you are both judging and playing in?

June 2, 2016 09:22:18 PM

Mark Brown
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 2 (Legacy Judge Program)), Regional Coordinator (Australia and New Zealand), Scorekeeper

Australia and New Zealand

Judge shirt at regular rel

This page might provide some useful information relating to this - http://wiki.magicjudges.org/en/w/Judge_Attire

It does specifically say do not wear the judge shirt when playing, but it also doesn't necessarily take into account events where you could be judging and playing. Personally I'd probably err on the side of not wearing it when playing and judging as the focus of events that allow judges to play while judging is more about fun, inclusion and enjoyment. As long as you are identified at the start of the event and you respond to judge calls there shouldn't be any need for a judge shirt when playing and judging.

June 3, 2016 02:22:22 AM

Charlotte Sable
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy))

Europe - North

Judge shirt at regular rel

Do NOT wear an official judge shirt when also playing in a Regular REL
event.

On 3 June 2016 at 05:23, Mark Brown <forum-27612-3c5b@apps.magicjudges.org>
wrote:

June 3, 2016 05:41:01 AM

Joaquín Pérez
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

Iberia

Judge shirt at regular rel

Originally posted by Charlotte Sable:

Do NOT wear an official judge shirt when also playing in a Regular REL
event.

Although I won't advise anyone to wear a judge shirt while playing in a RegREL event (and if you're playing and judging ina Comp+REL event, something is wrong… :lol:), and never wore it myself, I don't see any written policy against it.

Maybe in some strange corner case could be useful to wear a judge shirt, I don't know. RegREL is meant to have a fun a relaxed environment, but it can be really flexible, so…

June 3, 2016 09:27:46 AM

Bryan Prillaman
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy))

USA - Southeast

Judge shirt at regular rel



> On Jun 3, 2016, at 6:41 AM, Joaquín Pérez <forum-27612-3067@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:
>
> Charlotte Sable
> Do NOT wear an official judge shirt when also playing in a Regular REL
> event.
>
> Although I won't advise anyone to wear a judge shirt while playing in a RegREL event (and if you're playing and judging ina Comp+REL event, something is wrong… :lol:), and never wore it myself, I don't see any written policy against it.
>
> Maybe in some strange corner case could be useful to wear a judge shirt, I don't know. RegREL is meant to have a fun a relaxed environment, but it can be really flexible, so…
>

—–
Like many things in the program, non IPG/MTR updates are dependent on volunteers to update them. The wiki has plenty of articles and policy that used to be loved and cared for, and then the person who loved and cared for it had to leave it and no one picked it up.

https://wiki.magicjudges.org/en/w/Judge_Attire

It's an old article and not well maintained, but it does state not to wear your judge shirt while playing. (Also the “local” events it talks about are PTQs, not PPTQs. It even mentions the zebra shirts. It's old)

There have been old forum posts (before judgeapps) that revised the policy, and it's just made it into lore. Judgeapps archives have a few emails. Wearing an official judge shirt at FNM pushes the tone in a direction that is the opposite of what we want for FNM. You are part of the community, be a part of it. A uniform sets you apart slightly from that community. It's a tool to be used at larger events, but you don't need to be separated at the store level.

So yes, it is policy. Poorly documented policy cared by word of mouth and forum posts like this one, but typically the real common-sense stuff tends to fall through the cracks everywhere as there is a lot of stuff to maintain and a relatively small group willing to maintain it.

Are there exceptions? Yes. There are always exceptions. But those are typically because of other exceptions.

Example: a local TO here in FL recently ran a *free* FNM with $1600 In prizes. Ok, so there's your corner case right there. That should be a COMP rel event. Motivation to cheat is gonna be higher than normal, so pull out your blacks to add a bit of presence and authority. (And no, you aren't playing in that event either).

The more common reasons people want to wear their judge shirts at FNM:
1) they are *really* proud to be a judge. And the shirt represents that accomplishment.
2) they feel they need that extra boost of authority to get players to listen

For #1, be proud that people recognize you as a judge even when you aren't wearing a shirt. You are the judge. Not the shirt.

For #2. This is probably a bit of a confidence thing. Just get some repetitions in, work on forming a stronger bond with the TO/players and this perceived need will disappear.

-BPrill

June 3, 2016 10:06:46 AM

Rob McKenzie
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - North

Judge shirt at regular rel

I want to jump off a bit on this.

Regional non-uniform judge polos (or similar, like the USA-North vests and
hats) are actually pretty nice for this. They strike a good balance
between “yes, you can trust me, I'm a judge” and the actually reasonably
imposing uniform. I wear mine in similar situations because I have that
pride that Bryan talked about, but I don't want to be as in-your-face “I'm
a judge and thus need your respect”. I don't. I just want a flag that
says “yeah, really, I'm a judge and I'm proud of it, feel free to ask me
things”.

It looks like you are in Canada, Robert. I don't know of a Canadian judge
polo, (glad to be wrong on that, it would be sweet) but if you want a
USA-North one, ship me an email and I can get you in on the fall order for
it (or I might have one left over in your size.) Not perfect perfect, but
us Northern folks can all stick together. :)




Rob McKenzie
Magic Judge Level III
Judge Regional Coordinator USA-North
Minnesota

June 3, 2016 10:31:47 AM

Jason Malott
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Tournament Organizer

Canada

Judge shirt at regular rel

Hello Mr. McKenzie, if there's an opportunity for a different Canadian to also get in on the judge polo thing, I'd be very interested. I'd be willing to reimburse for shipping or whatever, if necessary.

June 3, 2016 10:38:20 AM

Rob McKenzie
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - North

Judge shirt at regular rel

Yep, ship me a direct email, through my Judgeapps profile, so I can get you
information and get your address.



Rob McKenzie
Magic Judge Level III
Judge Regional Coordinator USA-North
Minnesota

June 4, 2016 01:56:48 PM

Joshua Andrade
Tournament Organizer

USA - South

Judge shirt at regular rel

Per a WER update, you cannot register anyone as a judge who is also registered as a player; a pop-up warning says that you cannot be a player and a judge in the same event. When combined with the Judge Attire policy, either Regional Judge Attire (as mentioned) or store-specific attire would be more appropriate.


-
Joshua Andrade
Bad Wolf Trading

Edited Joshua Andrade (June 4, 2016 01:58:53 PM)

June 4, 2016 03:07:36 PM

Dan Collins
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy))

USA - Northeast

Judge shirt at regular rel

Originally posted by Joshua Andrade:

Per a WER update, you cannot register anyone as a judge who is also registered as a player; a pop-up warning says that you cannot be a player and a judge in the same event. When combined with the Judge Attire policy, either Regional Judge Attire (as mentioned) or store-specific attire would be more appropriate.


-
Joshua Andrade
Bad Wolf Trading


I'm not sure how you think these are connected. A long standing WER bug has prohibited one of adding a judge who is already a player, or adding a player who is already a judge, and the workaround is to do the other - add them as a judge first, if adding them as a player first doesn't work. (I haven't had to deal with this so I don't know which way works, but it's a regular topic on the #mtgjudge IRC help channel.)

Regardless of WER's intricacies, the MTR controls, and the MTR states that judges may also play in Regular REL events that they are also judging. WER does not set judge uniforms, and the recommendations above stand regardless of what hoops we have to jump through in order to use the software.

I otherwise agree with Mark's, Charlotte's, and Bryan's comments above. A store polo or regional shirt may help you identify yourself and your role to the players without being as formal and imposing as the uniform is.

Edited Dan Collins (June 4, 2016 03:10:27 PM)

June 4, 2016 07:44:09 PM

Sal Cortez
Judge (Level 1 (Historical))

USA - Southwest

Judge shirt at regular rel

I usually play in FNM, which I also run at my LGS. As for attire I usually wear the shop's logo shirt, it lets people know they can ask me questions but doesn't have the intimidation that the uniform can carry with it.

As for WER, if a person is going to be playing in the event while also judging, be sure to add all the judges before you add any players. The error happens when you try to add a judge in that is listed as a player.

June 6, 2016 07:39:57 PM

Jason Lauborough
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy))

USA - Central

Judge shirt at regular rel

I'll echo the thought that the Judge polos that are spreading in popularity are a good “casual” option for nights or events at which you want a little more kick without the weight of blacks. For me, it's usually a matter of identification: I'll wear it for the first couple FNMs of a new set, where we'll often have more new people after the pre-release, and there will be more of a need for explaining draft processes. As such, it's nice for store employees to be able to point me out. Other casual judge gear, like the Vegas t-shirt is also good for this purpose. I'd never go Full Black for a regular FNM.

(We don't play-and-judge except on really quiet nights, so the rest is kind of moot.)

Edited Jason Lauborough (June 6, 2016 07:41:32 PM)