Hello dear judges. :)

As We all understand marking cards in your library at any stages of the game is forbidden, however following question started to bother me. I wonder if more experienced Judges could help me.

1)If a player wishes to keep track of cards scried to bottom of his or her library,(obviously if there were no shuffle effects and all cards are known) I believe he or she can keep track by writing it down. If it is done in a timely fashion no problems should occur. just like this: 1st example

2)By following the logic, it should be perfectly fine to put a mark of the last unknown card of his or her library. It does not mark the unseen cards. By putting the peace of paper the player simply separates the known from the unknown cards. just like this: 2nd example

3)The third and a little bit drastic variation of this problem can be seen here: 3rd example

I understand that 2 out of 3 examples do not seem right, however I fail to see the functional or ethical difference between the 1st example (which should be perfectly legal) and other two.

My question would be the following one. Is any of these examples can be implemented at competitive REL? And in case any of these are illegal then why?

Thank You for Your time and knowledge. :)

Edited Edvinas Gurinas (July 2, 2016 07:43:24 AM)

(Sorry for the long delay - holidays, then vacation, conspired to distract me from unfinished business!)

Some time ago - back when Future Sight was fairly new, nearly 9 years ago! - we added language to allow players to place a small object on their library, reminding them of the need to pay upkeep costs (most common example). We had to add that language because, until then, nothing could be placed on top of your library.

So, if a player takes notes without introducing undue delay to the game's progress, they can, effectively, keep track of cards. They can not, however, insert random objects into their library - it must be kept in a single, face-down, pile. That's covered by the Comp Rules, 401.2. While not expressly forbidden, it's also not expressly allowed - and the rules and policy documents are “permissive” by nature - in other words, if the rules or policy don't allow something, it's implied that it's not allowed.

So, no, your 2nd and 3rd examples are not allowed.

d:^D

What about seeing the top three cards of your own deck withSensei's Divining Top, and keeping these cards turned 90 degrees, or 45 degrees, or such?

(Right now, I would discourage this for fear of cards flipping et similar - is this striclty forbidden?)

I believe that would make it no longer a single pile, but two distinct piles, one on top of the other.