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Tournament Operations » Post: Intentional draw after the first game of a match

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

Sept. 27, 2016 05:33:41 PM

Federico Verdini
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), GP Team-Lead-in-Training

Hispanic America - South

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

In the last WMCQ we found ourselves in a situation, not sure of how to solve it.
Afterwards, we've been discussing about it through social media but were unable to agree on a solution.

20 minutes into the round, we receive a slip that states 1-1-ID. When asked about it, the players said that, after Player A won the first game, while playing the second game, they decided to draw the match. So, player A concedes the second game and then they draw.

How are we supposed to register this result in WER?
The most prevalent opinions are 1-1-1 or 1-1-3.
I think that when we registar an ID where no games were played as 0-0-3, one of the reasons is to have a record of the intent of the players. In that same spirit, I think that 1-1-3 both registers the fact that there were games being played and the intent of the players.

What do you think?

Sept. 27, 2016 05:48:34 PM

Jordan Baker
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - North

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

Current MTR is ambiguous on this situation, and policy was clarified from this post from Scott Marshall.

I'll say that I disagree somewhat strongly with this policy, but this is what it appears to be at this juncture.

Sept. 27, 2016 06:13:25 PM

Federico Verdini
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), GP Team-Lead-in-Training

Hispanic America - South

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

Well, I'm not sure what Scott said in that post necessarily applies here
In the quoted thread, the answer is to register it as 1-1-3, but the players actually won 1 game each and then draw 3 games that they started playing

Sept. 27, 2016 06:31:26 PM

Callum Milne
Forum Moderator
Judge (Uncertified)

Canada

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

Scott's answer applies. Your reasoning is sound–Player A won a game,
and that should therefore be reflected in the match result, but it's
also desirable to maintain the consistency created by the standard ID
result. Hence, 1-1-3.

Sept. 27, 2016 06:40:26 PM

Simon Ahrens
Judge (Uncertified)

German-speaking countries

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

The original scenario in the cited thread stated that they played 5 games and drew 3 of them. I believe this is why Scott answer was like this:
However, we've always held that the results reported must reflect the games actually played; for this reason, if A is ahead 1-0, and is about to win game 2, when the players agree to a draw, it should be reported 1-1, not 0-0-3. Given that, this match should reflect the games actually played - so 1-1-3 is correct.
When they have not played games three, four and five a slip with 1-1 should be fine.

Sept. 27, 2016 06:53:08 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Hall of Fame

USA - Northwest

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

For a match to be an intentional draw after any games are played, the result slip should reflect the games played. In this example - slightly different than the one Jordan linked to (thanks, Jordan!) - they played a game, then the player conceded the second game. This match result is, in actuality, 1-1, and that's what the result slip should reflect.

It's only when players agree to an ID prior to game one that we default to 0-0-3, per the MTR.

d:^D

Sept. 27, 2016 07:05:11 PM

Federico Verdini
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), GP Team-Lead-in-Training

Hispanic America - South

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

So, the result slip should say 1-1, but we register the result in WER as 1-1-3?
Or does your answer both covers slips and WER, contrary to what Callum said before?

Sept. 27, 2016 07:33:39 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Hall of Fame

USA - Northwest

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

Results entry, in WER or WLTR, should match the result slip for any matches where games were actually played. (The obvious exception is when players get cute, and report 1-1-99 or something similar.)

When players agree to an ID without playing any games, then we should use WER or WLTR's hotkey or button for an ID, and let the software use its default - for consistency. I won't pretend to know if WER or WLTR defaults to 0-0-3 or 0-0-0 or 1-1-1; I also won't pretend that it matters, as long as we always do it the same way. (Last time I used WER, I think it entered 0-0. Meh.)

d:^D

Sept. 27, 2016 07:47:19 PM

Jordan Baker
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), Scorekeeper

USA - North

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

WER enters in the “0-0” button as a 0-0-1 match result, so IDs currently have to be manually entered as 0-0-3.

WLTR enters in the “D-D” button as a 0-0-3 match result.

Sept. 27, 2016 07:58:27 PM

Federico Verdini
Judge (Level 2 (Judge Academy)), GP Team-Lead-in-Training

Hispanic America - South

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

As an aside, it does matter when it comes to tiebreaker
0-0-3 means 33% GWP
1-1-1 means 44% GWP
1-1-3 means 40% GWP

Yes, it's quite rare but I've seen GWP be relevant in a cut

Sept. 27, 2016 08:04:28 PM

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3 (Judge Academy)), Hall of Fame

USA - Northwest

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

Originally posted by Jordan Baker:

WER enters in the “0-0” button as a 0-0-1 match result, so IDs currently have to be manually entered as 0-0-3.
Then we should consider an update to MTR, so that people who just use the {0-0} button in WER get the same, consistent results as those who manually enter what the MTR says. I'll pass that along…

d:^D

Sept. 28, 2016 07:24:23 AM

Sal Cortez
Judge (Level 1 (Judge Academy))

USA - Southwest

Intentional draw after the first game of a match

In regards to WER and the entry of 1-1-0, you can simply click the 1-1 button and leave the draws on 0 and it should give you the desired result c: I don't know off the top of my head which number that is ( 3 or 4 I think? ) This happens a lot at FNM when players go to time at the end of game two and the player that lost the first game wins the second one.

Only two games were actually played, with a win for each player, and neither of them were drawn so 1-1-0 would be the result.

Edited Sal Cortez (Sept. 28, 2016 07:25:37 AM)