I am an employee and manager of my local game store. In a few weeks we will be running another pptq. During our last PPG Q my employer asked if I could work while also acting as the head judge since we had a level 1 judge also on staff for the event. That event ran smoothly as there were not any calls in which a appeal was made. I was able to get off of the sales floor by the time the final round was ending. I wanted to get some of the other judges feedback about the situation. For reference the store that I work in has a separate room for it sells for and it's giving space but they are directly connected with no doors in between.

I think that is within reason if you have an experienced L1 to run the floor while you handle appeals and any problems that arise. It is probably a good way to let an L1 get experience. Especially in this new world of PPTQ's which TO normally only paying for one judge making it hard for L1 to get many oppertunities at comp rel

I agree with Robert mostly, but being in a different building for most
of the event sounds a little more hands off than is reasonable.

Gareth - I don't think we are talking there about different building just next room.

Whoops, I took ‘no doors’ to mean you have to go out to the street to
get between them. I can equally see how it can mean a big opening that
can't be closed. And the ‘are directly connected’ would imply the
later interpretation.

Ooops.

So yeah, it doesn't sound too bad.

The question is: where you free to give the tournament what it needs
from it's head judge?

Originally posted by Robert Langmaid:

It is probably a good way to let an L1 get experience. Especially in this new world of PPTQ's which TO normally only paying for one judge making it hard for L1 to get many oppertunities at comp rel

Is it really? Are judging hours that hard to come by? Wouldn't you want your hours spent training towards becoming a competitive judge actually be well supervised? The description that is given here makes me worry that there might not be enough observation going on for there to be valuable training and feedback. How are you going to review a judge that is in a different room?
Based on just that I don't think this is a judging opportunity I would be applying for as an L1 looking for comp rel experience.


As far as whether the situation as a whole is acceptable is unclear to me. There is a reason an L2 is required. We don't let an L1 that has an L2 available on Skype/Facetime if things come up judge pptq's. From the description it isn't too clear what you as an L2 brought to the event besides a DCI number. Was your role bigger than being remote assistance?

One of the largest hurdles for an L1 getting to L2 is ticking the boxes for events judged with a second judge. While it may not be possible to observe everything the candidate does at this particular event, previous interaction and experience can easily have shown they're ready to test. So if this works to tick that particular box, and the candidate is otherwise suitable, I'm ok with it.

> On Oct 24, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Mark Mc Govern <forum-30951-1b7c@apps.magicjudges.org> wrote:
>
> One of the largest hurdles for an L1 getting to L2 is ticking the boxes for events judged with a second judge. While it may not be possible to observe everything the candidate does at this particular event, previous interaction and experience can easily have shown they're ready to test. So if this works to tick that particular box, and the candidate is otherwise suitable, I'm ok with it.
>
>

I want to point out that the requirement is not just working comp REL events with a second judge. It's getting a recommendation review from an L2+ judge who worked that event with you, with the goal of the review answering the question: “can this person HJ a PPTQ effectively?”

Yes - but you may know they can do it already. That's my point. It's common in areas with small PPTQs.

I don't think that this is a good practice.

The L2 requirement to HJ a PPTQ isn't just to put someone in the building whose DCI number can make the tournament valid, it's to ensure that the players come away feeling like the winner was determined fairly, with someone who's been certified as having Comp REL knowledge. There's a lot more to being the HJ than just taking appeals, and I feel like if you're not giving your full attention to the event, players might worry that their opponents got away with some shady things.

Originally posted by Mark Mc Govern:

One of the largest hurdles for an L1 getting to L2 is ticking the boxes for events judged with a second judge. While it may not be possible to observe everything the candidate does at this particular event, previous interaction and experience can easily have shown they're ready to test. So if this works to tick that particular box, and the candidate is otherwise suitable, I'm ok with it.

I don't see those boxes as arbitrary hurdles to jump through, but rather as important steps to see if someone is ready to be a Competitive REL judge. It's not about seeing if you can get on staff, it's about having someone watch how you answer questions, perform deck checks, handle logistical responsibilities, apply policy and investigate disputes.

If you don't have someone there observing you doing these things, you're not really fulfilling the spirit of the requirement.

As an L2, TO and Store Owner, I always bring in a HJ to run my Competitive events, I'm always on staff but any judge work they get from me on day of event is a bonus. There are multiple reasons for this.

1st: If there is an offense that warrants a DQ, I don't want the person upset/angry with a store employee but rather with the DCI.

2nd: I don't want my event to suffer because I'm busy with a customer, nor do I want to interrupt a sales pitch to answer an appeal or do other necessary things to keep an event running smooth.

If you choose to continue this practice I hope you at least consider comping your FJ better as it sounds like he is doing much more than normal for a FJ to keep the event running smooth.

Originally posted by John Brian McCarthy:

Mark Mc Govern
One of the largest hurdles for an L1 getting to L2 is ticking the boxes for events judged with a second judge. While it may not be possible to observe everything the candidate does at this particular event, previous interaction and experience can easily have shown they're ready to test. So if this works to tick that particular box, and the candidate is otherwise suitable, I'm ok with it.

I don't see those boxes as arbitrary hurdles to jump through, but rather as important steps to see if someone is ready to be a Competitive REL judge. It's not about seeing if you can get on staff, it's about having someone watch how you answer questions, perform deck checks, handle logistical responsibilities, apply policy and investigate disputes.

If you don't have someone there observing you doing these things, you're not really fulfilling the spirit of the requirement.

As I've said already - I'm assuming you've already deemed the candidate sufficiently qualified to do all that, but that they haven't checked the figurative box. I've seen L1s (plural) who I would have tested in a shot if (a) their checklist was complete and (b) I was L3.

Hi all,

As a L2 who's also been TO:ing quite a bit at the LGS where I also work as
a clerk, I think Jim touches upon an important point to keep in mind. If
you work at the store and as the HJ, you are simultaneously taking on two
different roles. These can come into conflict and then it must be clear
what takes precedence. Is it helping a customer or your FJ? Who has to
wait, the players or the customers?

If the answer is that the players will have to wait, then that calls into
question whether you are really able to do your job as HJ.
If the answer is that the customers will have to wait, well that makes you
a more able HJ and it's really up to your boss to decide whether this is a
risk they like taking.

One way or another, it is not ideal. Incidentally, this very issue
illustrates an argument one can make for why it is good to have the HJ
devoted only to HJ:ing.

Cheers
/Eskil

2016-10-24 19:43 GMT+02:00 Mark Mc Govern <

Originally posted by Quinten van de Vrie:

Is it really? Are judging hours that hard to come by? Wouldn't you want your hours spent training towards becoming a competitive judge actually be well supervised?

From my experience Comp Rel hours are almost impossible to come by now between most stores only taking a single L2 to run their pptq and gpt being ran at regular rel. It is almost impossible for An L1 in some locations to get any comp rel experience.

I'm sure we'd all agree that this is definitely not a “Best Practice”; I'm going a step further and recommending that you never do this, unless it can't be avoided.

Michael, if your employer asks that question again, you can safely say:
1) Uncle Scott said “please, don't do that”
and
2) if you don't believe him, ask your WPN rep for approval first.
(I'm going to guess you won't get that approval - but I'll admit, I can't speak for all WPN reps.)

d:^D