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Competitive REL » Post: Missed Trigger - Thing in the Ice + Faithless Looting

Missed Trigger - Thing in the Ice + Faithless Looting

Jan. 28, 2019 09:26:21 PM [Original Post]

Samuel Hammond
Judge (Level 2), Scorekeeper

USA - Northeast

Missed Trigger - Thing in the Ice + Faithless Looting

Hi all!
I am sure I am overthinking this, but I wanted an opinion.

I was recently at a Comp REL event at I took a judge call that went something like this:
AP controlled a Thing in the Ice with 4 counters on it.
AP cast Faithless looting, drawing two cards.
Then, before AP discarded he took a counter off of Thing.

they called me over, and NAP said AP missed his trigger.
I agreed with NAP, as AP took an action (drawing off Faithless Looting) that could not have happened with thing's trigger on the stack. AP appealed, asking about OoOS.

The head judge over turned my ruling, stating the OoOS did apply here. In hind sight I tend to agree with being overturned here, as this interaction represents how players ACTUALLY play magic.

There is one line in the MTR that has me scratching my head about this, though: “An out-of-order sequence must not result in a player prematurely gaining information which could reasonably affect decisions made later in that sequence.”

I feel like the player had gained significant amounts of info because of the draw off of Faithless looting, and, while technially the game state (eventually) made it to a legal spot, I would say that this info gained would make OooS not apply.

Just to clarify, I am in no way trying to justify my overturned ruling. I was just Scrap Trawlering my way through the MTR, and this line reminded me of this situation! :)

Am I way off base here? Thank you for the time and Edification I am sure to receive!

Sam

Edit: Aww Shoot! I posted this in the wrong Forum. Mods, please feel free to move this or otherwise do whatever needs doing. :)

Edited Samuel Hammond (Jan. 28, 2019 09:32:58 PM)

Jan. 29, 2019 12:33:33 AM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Scott Marshall
Forum Moderator
Judge (Level 3), Regional Coordinator (USA - Northwest), Hall of Fame

USA - Northwest

Missed Trigger - Thing in the Ice + Faithless Looting

Originally posted by MTR:

An out-of-order sequence must not result in a player prematurely gaining information which could reasonably affect decisions made later in that sequence.
(added emphasis)(and moved per request)

Thing in the Ice doesn't ask you to make any choices, so the information gained by drawing first has no bearing on a legal decision. I suppose, in some odd cases, a player's draws could make them want to miss the trigger (I'm sure such an odd corner exists, even though I've never sat in that corner) - but intentionally missing the trigger is not at all a legal decision.

So, I'd support ruling OoOS in this case, because there aren't any decisions affected by that information.

d:^D