Magic Judges Forum / Competitive REL / Modifying a real card to be a token

Jeff Kruchkow · June 17, 2019 01:12:35 PM

Did a search for a few things and didn't quite find as clear of an answer as I'd like so asking for clarity.

A player is playing Llanowar Mentor and wants to use several real Llanowar Elf as the tokens. What is the minimum they need to do to those cards for that to not count against them in a deck check presuming they want to keep all the cards in the same box. Does simply making it not meet the criteria in the authorized cards section of the MTR count (ie. Sharpie-ing out the mana cost) or does it take more?

Scott Marshall · June 17, 2019 01:50:39 PM

Llanowar Elves are a legal card for the format, so my short answer is “just don’t do that.”

If the Ll-elves are in significantly different sleeves, and are CLEARLY presented to each opponent before the deck is presented, then it’s legal.

Look at MTR 2.3, #3 - decks and sideboards are presented before each game; if it’s clearly communicated that the elves are neither deck nor sideboard cards, that rule is satisfied.

However, also consider:

Originally posted by MTR 3.8, Game Markers:

Players using markers to represent in-game components (e.g. permanents) must have a way of clearly representing any in-game status, such as whether a permanent is tapped. Sleeves or card backs that appear similar to any player’s sleeves or card backs may not be used as markers. A tournament official may disallow the use of game markers that can cause confusion or that are deemed inappropriate or offensive.

Judges may still decide to disallow the elf tokens; I don’t think I would, but I am just one of thousands…

d:^D

Edited Scott Marshall (June 17, 2019 01:51:37 PM)

Jeff Kruchkow · June 17, 2019 02:08:10 PM

Originally posted by Scott Marshall:

Llanowar Elves are a legal card for the format, so my short answer is “just don’t do that.”

If the Ll-elves are in significantly different sleeves, and are CLEARLY presented to each opponent before the deck is presented, then it’s legal.

Look at MTR 2.3, #3 - decks and sideboards are presented before each game; if it’s clearly communicated that the elves are neither deck nor sideboard cards, that rule is satisfied.

However, also consider:
Originally posted by MTR 3.8, Game Markers:

Players using markers to represent in-game components (e.g. permanents) must have a way of clearly representing any in-game status, such as whether a permanent is tapped. Sleeves or card backs that appear similar to any player’s sleeves or card backs may not be used as markers. A tournament official may disallow the use of game markers that can cause confusion or that are deemed inappropriate or offensive.
Judges may still decide to disallow the elf tokens; I don’t think I would, but I am just one of thousands…

d:^D

At what point does a card stop being a card is I guess what I'm asking? Presenting tokens gives away real info in some cases, and it would seem like something like cutting the corners off or acetone-ing off the Magic back would take it past the line of reasonable consideration.

Scott Marshall · June 17, 2019 02:30:37 PM

I know what you asked; I stand by my answer. (Especially the “just don’t” part.)

Note that saying “here’s some tokens in case we need them”, without showing what they are, reveals NOTHING about your deck.

d:^D

Jasper Overman · June 18, 2019 04:05:14 AM

To be sure the tokens stand out: cut the edges off, and use card sleeves ment for smaller card types to keep the tokens in. That way, they are much more easy to differentiate from the cards on the decklist.

Please keep the forum protocol in mind when posting.

June 17, 2019 01:12:35 PM [Original Post]

Modifying a real card to be a token

June 17, 2019 01:50:39 PM [Marked as Accepted Answer]

Modifying a real card to be a token

June 17, 2019 02:08:10 PM

Modifying a real card to be a token

June 17, 2019 02:30:37 PM

Modifying a real card to be a token

June 18, 2019 04:05:14 AM

Modifying a real card to be a token